IS MY FIL RACIST OR SHOULD I GET A SENSE OF HUMOUR?

[whatsthestoryinbalamorytoday]

Since me and my DH 1st got together, my FIL used to call me a Paki. When he stopped that after we had a strong word with him, he began on my religion-making comments about how "my lot blow themselves up". He'd also try to imitate our call to prayer and just generally take the piss. I'm a Pakistani Muslim and my DH is White.
Once we were in Nandos and there were 2 girls wearing headscarves sitting near us. He started commenting on how that should be banned like in France and they shouldn't be allowed to wear stuff like that in public. We were in an asian restaurant and a man with his young children was eating with his hands. My FIL started saying loudly (he's not capable of saying anything quietly), that the man was a pig and it was disgusting that he eat with his hands. I explained that I do, and my family do aswell-he insisted that's what pigs do and that it was uncivilised!!! Me and my DH had a go at him and thought that was the end of it.
In the past, whenever he'd said anything to me I would try to ignore it and get upset once he'd gone. My DH assured me that his father did it because he genuinely thought he was being funny. He said that if he says anything to me, retaliate by taking the piss about the fact he's mediterrean-which I did once or twice, although I hated stooping to his level and he still never stopped-it just used to escalate.
Today he came round and we were all winding each other up and there was a bit of harmless banter. Then he started on the fact that "my lot" in Pakistan wear the Burkah which covers all the face but the eyes. He started gesturing with his hands and pretending he was wearing one. I told him he was a racist and he realised I was being serious. He then stormed off-told my DH never to call him again and said if you can't take insults back, don't give them. I told him that I'd not said anything personal against him and definately not anything racist. He said he'd never come back to our house and I said (as I showed him the door and slammed it after him) that people who make racist or ignorant comments aren't welcome!!!

My DH still insists that his dad just has a poor sense of humour but supports me enough to say that without an apology to us, he'll not see our dd as he won't allow racist comments being said around us. Have I over-reacted? The guy is actually quite nice sometimes but seems to (just when things are going well) end up saying something racist, or comment on the fact that I look pregnant again (which he knows pisses me off). I spoke to my MIL about it before and she said she'd have a word with him-not sure if she did.

What would you have done? Have I overreacted? Should I be feeling guilty about this, because I do

agree that you should just leave things for a while - sounds like your FIL has tried to cover his back by mis-representing comments to your MIL.
Keep remembering that you are in the right here and let them make the first move.
You haven't mentioned children on this thread, I'm assuming you have at least one? because your parents in law will not want to lose touch with their grandchild/ren unless they are idiots.Perhaps when they do get in touch you can just remind htem that you do NOT wish your child/ren to grow up with racist family members.Good luck, keep us posted!

Balamory, she has lived with him for lomg enough surely she knows what he is like by now? She probably will take is side, more fool her, She is the one married to a cross between Bernard Manning and Alf garnett.

You are better off out of the whole scanrio

I am mixed race myself have had to deal with alot of racist shit from P and XP family.

People are so ignorant they are the sad ones with questionable social skills x
hugs

I'm sorry mil seems to be taking his side. I can't imagine anyone hearing those sort of comments to find them amusing. They are totally offensive. I find it odd that she supports him, that she 'phoned up to stick her oar into his argument, and that she's threatening a feud. Sounds quite bullying behaviour too imo.

It's a shame dh also tries to say that it's just his soh. It isn't. it's rude, unpleasant, ignorant & racist. I really think you have to stand firm. Get your dh to talk with them that his behaviour, not just on this occasion, but many times previously is completely unacceptable. You want an apology & you want no more repeats. Only then will you resume normal relations. If you give in it's accepting the bad behaviour & it will never end. And it's not fair on you or your dd. Why should you or anyone else have to listen to that? I would feel extremely offended. Feel on your behalf.

You are not in the wrong here. Don;t let either of them make you think you are.

FIL has an identity card from his country of origin which he was showing us, I was taking the piss and asking if you could go to Sainsburys and pay with it because he was trying to make out like it was really important.
That's when he started saying that "my lot" couldn't have one made because of the Burkah's Muslim women wear in Pakistan. I said well you've never been to Pakistan so how would you know anyway, to which he responded that he'd been to Southall where there are so many of my kind that it's the same as actually having been to Pakistan.

Then he started pretending he was wearing a Burkah, covering his face with his hands, laughing and saying that's what you lot wear in Pakistan.

I don't think they really give a shit about seeing their ONLY grandaughter as they've only made an effort to see her a handful of times since she was born and she's now 15 months.

Last thing MIL said was look after her and give her a big kiss from me-sounded like a kind of parting speech. Also before even finding out what had happened she told DH that his dad was really upset and that she doesn't think we'll all ever meet again.

You hear about nasty DIL's who stop grandparents seeing their kids-these 2 are the complete opposite!!! They've been given the opportunity and have never taken it!!!

We will leave the dust to settle, but am kind of hoping that we have no further contact with them. They're more trouble than they're worth and DH agrees!!!

My relationship with them both since day one has been involved a lot of tension. With FIL for obvious reasons and with MIL because she is very confrontational and quite aggressive to talk to. She also is the master of guilt-trips!!!

Tried to totally take over with our dd when she was born, and when she saw we weren't accepting it, backed off and took no further interest.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced they're just not worth it. MIL especially-when she spoke to DH last night she said FIL just doesn't know he's saying anyhting wrong-funny how he only says it when she's not around, only infront of my DH and me!!!!

Balamory - what a horrible situation.
Even if it was 'just' your FIL's soh, it would still be unnacceptable - but he sounds ignorant, insensitive, ill-mannered, childish and very unintelligent, so not sure how much headway you would ever make with him.

You may well have to leave them to stew for a bit, or perhaps try your DH having a calm but very direct talk with them. It is his family, and if my family did this to DP (I'm white, he's asian) I would tackle them, and explain exactly what the problem was, but that if they couldn't come to share my view, they would at least have to keep their manners in shape, and their views and 'soh' to themselves in earshot of me, my DP and child. or else there really would be no contact. With any of us.

Balamory - it sounds to me like he uses his 'humour' as a front to mask his racism! Honestly, he just sounds like a bully to me. I think if this blow-up hadn't happened now,it was just in waiting.

am in that someone in this day and age can be so ignorant and even worse that he is supposed to be family. I think you have been amazingly tolerant and patient to put up with it for so long - no wonder you reacted that way! He doesnt deserve the privelidge of your company.

yes, he is incredibly childish. I don't mean any offence by this comment, but when I 1st met him, I thought he was a bit mentally challenged and slow because of the comments he'd make. When I asked DH and MIL-they both said he wasn't-he was just like that.

Alot of the time I used to feel sorry for him because to be honest, I thought he was incredibly thick. The more I've seen of him, the more I've noticed that he acts like that more around his own MIL and his wife (my MIL). The way that he's gone back and stirred trouble between us and MIL just shows that he's crafty and manipulative. I can't believe I used to make so many allowances for him out of pity.

How awful, whatsthestory. He sounds dreadful.

MIL has said he is "very upset". Funny how it's him who gets the sympathy vote!!!

What do I do when he calls to apologise (which he definately will). Do we allow things to go back to normal or learn from the fact that both FIL and MIL's knee-jerk reaction to a problem which could have easily been prevented or resolved was to say they wanted no further contact with us.

I see that as a clear and definate sign that we obviously don't mean much to them at all. If they're reaction to a problem (where they are clearly in the wrong) is to practically disown us, is there any point of us having a relationship at all.

Opinions on this would be great. I'm emotionally involved and would like to know what someone level-headed would do in this situation....at the end of the day, they're still my dd's grandparents!!!

Balamory, has it ever blown up to this extent before? And if so, how was it patched up?

Essvee are you Essbee ?

No, just essvee! :)

Oh dear this will get confusing.

There is a long term poster by the name of Essbee, oh my poor brain. lol

essvee

no it has never blown up to anything before because this is the 1st time that I actually said something back!!!

Is it even worth patching up in the 1st place?

In that case, IMHO, if he DOES apologise you should patch it up for the sake of DH and DD, but make it clear that he needs to keep his opinions (or soh, if that's how he prefers to see it) to himself and that next time there will be no rapprochement.
Good luck... and whatever happens, remember none of it is your fault!!
Thinking of you...

Dear Whatsthestory, my Dh is just like that,WOW. He is also white and we have two kids. I am begail and a muslim. Some times it does not bothe me because I know its a sin to blow you self up in the name of go and I agree with him, And the things about girl wearing headscarves, I know a few grils that started wearing them just too be diffcult and get antention! They still get up to no good when their parents are not looking! Sometimes I know he does it to winneg me up the wrong way, because he knows what bottons to press. And I always eat curries with my hands because it is too hard with a spoon, at home that is. he never says anything . Its a skill and their just jesous. Dont worry, its his pro not yours.

If he does apologise, i think you should accept his apology gracefully - but use it as a way to re-inforce boundaries. You could perhaps say something like 'thank you, i really appreciate your apology, it means a lot because as I'm sure you'll understand, i don't want the children to grwo up thinking that their Mums race, relligion and culture are pne big joke. They might have enough to cope with out in the big bad world.'.

good on you for standing up to the racist pig!he sounds awful.he should respect your culture/religion and beliefs as you are part of his family.dont feel guilty,youve tolerated his comments long enough.dont let him upset you.and just think,if he is like this with you,he might be like it with your children aswell.if you want him to still see his grandchildren,than tell him that you will not put up with anymore of his nasty racist comments.if this was in the workplace that you were having this kind of abuse,then hed be in a hell of alot of trouble!just because hes family doesnt mean you have to put up with it.

Your FIL makes Bernard Manning seem tame. He might think he's joking but he's obviously racist as non racist people don't joke about these things. Like everyone else I think you've been very tolerant indeed. Whilst people continue to make allowances for him his behaviour will continue. Therefore you're right to make a stand. Your children can do without a racist grandfather. Hope this is the wake up call he needs.

God no dont feel guilty, you were well within your right to say something and even if he isnt racist the remarks that he has made to you are.

Well done for standing your ground, I wish I had an ounce of your strenth.

Thanks so much for all your kind words of support. I never wanted to be a bitchy daughter in law, but looks like that's how it's going to be from now on, I think it's well overdue infact.

Blu you've hit the nail on the head!!! Spoke to DH and that's exactly what we're going to do-make sure they know the boundaries and keep them in check. I've already let MIL know that his behaviour is inexcusable and we're shocked that she would attempt to make allowances for him.

Haven't spoken to them yet-just sent a text message. Let them stew for a bit and stress about it-may make them truly realise what they've both done!!!

Dear Balamory;

He sounds like an absolutely horrible man, and I suspect that your MIL aids and abets him, either 'cos she agrees, or for a simple life - either way it adds up to the same thing. It makes me sad because my own Bajan and Isle of Wightian parents suffered at the hands of my grandfather forty years ago, and here you are enduring a similar situation. They ended up estranged from my grandparents - they had enough on their plate dealing with the outside world, let alone family, and they wanted to protect me from this 'family' racism.

You may always have to be 'the bigger man' in your situation with such an obtuse, rude guy, but you must set incontrivertible rules for his behaviour; it is not acceptable, and God forbid he should still be saying such things when your daughter is old enough to understand (and maybe even learn from him).

Good luck..

Cooperflykiller

is it fair to also be setting boundaries on MIL? I've let her know that we don't want dd overly involved in someone whose judgement was so flawed that they'd just blindly defend someone and excuse his actions not matter what happens.

we'd had no contact so far-which is what we'd ask of them so hopefully this will be our chance to distance ourselves from the both of them.