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Multicultural families

Here's where to share your experience of raising a child or growing up in a multicultural family.

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Original poster

Describing people by the colour of their skin

41 replies

savoycabbage · 09/09/2010 09:03

I have just had a bit of a 'heated discussion' at school about describing people by the colour of their skin.

I would rather people said 'the girl with the pony tail' about my dd rather than 'the mixed race girl' but other people said that it was no different from saying 'the girl with brown hair' which actually I wouldn't have noticed.

Now I don't know if I am being too sensitive.

OP posts:

Aitch · 09/09/2010 09:08

i dunno, in the end it's whatever is the most useful description. if you were pointing, let's say, and only one girl had a pony tail, you'd probably use that. if there was only one white child in the class would you hesitate to describe them as such? i don't find 'mixed-race' loaded, but then dd came back talking about 'the girl with the brown face' at her new school and i did say to her that she should make a point of finding out the girl's name, because she's not the only girl with a brown face in the school.

wonka · 09/09/2010 09:26

I cannot see how its any different to my son being discribed (by a teacher who was trying to pin down which child I was talking about) as the pale boy with all the freckles.. He is! and I'm the Mum with the funny accent. But could easily be described the same way as my son. But if you feel sensitive about it and you've told them they will probably make an effort not to do it again.

LilyBolero · 09/09/2010 09:30

Dd often describes people as "he has a brown skin, and dark hair and brown eyes". There is no element of racism, it's simply descriptive.

Habbibu · 09/09/2010 09:34

I think this is a really interesting topic. I think it's perfectly reasonable to describe someone by a distinct feature of their appearance, and otherwise you quite often end up with an elephant in the room situation where people end up tying themselves in knots trying to describe someone without using the colour of their skin.

FallingWithStyle · 09/09/2010 09:47

I think there are certain descriptions that are rightfully avoided - for instance, its ok to say 'the girl with the curly hair' or 'the really tall boy' etc as there are no negative connotations to those things. But you wouldn't want to say 'the really fat girl' or 'the kid with the buck teeth' for obvious reasons.

So I'd be uncomfortable at being asked not to use skin colour as a way of describing someone's physical appearance, because if there are negative connotations for some people in that, thent there certainly shouldn't be.

The only time I might agree with you is if the person using skin colour to describe is making it clear they dont actully see anything about the person they are describing other than the colour of their skin iyswim.

So, while I think its reasonable to say "you know, John, works in IT dept, mid-30s, tall black guy" but not "You know, John, the black guy" hard to describe actually because I think you just know when someone is in some way objectifyingthe person because of their race - and often thats down to a lot more than the words they use, its the tone and your knowledge of them as a person etc.

Habbibu · 09/09/2010 09:48

yy, Falling, I think that's a good way of looking at it.

Original poster

savoycabbage · 09/09/2010 10:26

Yes, I think that my concern is that I don't want her to be 'the mixed-race girl' but nor do I want it to be on the same level as 'the fat girl'. Like her not being white is a bad thing.

I think I just got a shock really as the person who did it didn't know she was mine and there wasn't a reason at all for her to describe her as mixed race within the group. Then when I said that she was mine she sort of panicked in a way and apologised for saying it, almost as if she had said 'the fat girl' and I didn't know how to feel.

OP posts:

cashmygold · 09/09/2010 13:52

Don't think the person was intentionally being malicious, but you have every right to experess your views to them. Hopefully they have taken your grievances on board.

Aitch · 09/09/2010 14:34

but oh god oh god it's all so FRAUGHT isn't it? i was at a party recently and i think i made an arse of something like that in front of a woman i know and really like and she's chinese and her kids are mixed (white dh) and i canNOT remember for the life of me what i said but i think i said something along the lines of something to do with asians and then i had to say 'by which i mean asians as in vietnamese-y/indonesian-y' (to differenciate from the way that asian is used round here which generally means indian or pakistani) and she just phsl at me because she could see i was getting myself in knots and WISHED i had never started the story and it wasn't that funny anyway.

i don't for the life of me think she thinks i'm racist, i think she thinks i'm a dick. but i do find talking about race-y (see there i go again) stuff just very, very complicated and difficult because i want to be all super-relaxed about it but end off fucking it up.

Aitch · 09/09/2010 19:08

oh JEEZ i really killed this one, didn't i?

Kewcumber · 09/09/2010 19:10

dead as a dodo Aitch

Kewcumber · 09/09/2010 19:12

I don't have a problem with it provided its meant to be a unique identifier - I often describe DS as "Central Asian looking" then have to say "but you probably don't know what that means do you - he's kinda mixed race dark skinned chinese looking"

MarsLady · 09/09/2010 19:12

I think you're being a bit too sensitive myself. It's being used as a description not a term of abuse. Huge difference.

Kewcumber · 09/09/2010 19:15

On a slightly separate note - I was once called a secretary and on discovering I was the finance Director the man in question apologised. My response - I don't find being called a secretary so offensive that it warrants an apology! (particularly as I was picking up a secretary's phone at the time).

So I do understand what you mean by not wanting the apology like being mixed race is something to apologise for.

JorrisBohnson · 09/09/2010 19:15

Is that a black AND white dodo?

HecateQueenOfWitches · 09/09/2010 19:21

Not a problem imo. I mean it wouldn't bother me if my sons were described thus. When attempting to describe someone, you pick something that will enable people to narrow it down. So in my boys case, being mixed race lads in a very white area, saying oh, you know bob (not either of their names ), he's the mixed race lad in y7.

Or they could say oh, you know bob, he's the medium height, medium weight, brown haired, brown eyed boy in y 7...

It's just picking something that has a high change of being something that would help you to pick that person out in your mind.

If everyone there was mixed race then it'd have to be the tall one, or the one with the funny hairdo. just something that doesn't describe 2/3 of the rest of the group

HecateQueenOfWitches · 09/09/2010 19:25

just read the bit where you say that there was no need for her to mention mixed race.

What did she actually say?

AliGrylls · 09/09/2010 19:33

It is only a problem if it is said in a particular way that has a negative connotation. To say something like the girl with olive / freckled / dark skin I would not consider offensive, as a way of describing someone I would not consider offensive.

But then again it is a question of context and how things are said which makes it hard to say absolutely one way or the other.

gingerwig · 09/09/2010 19:43

my son is as white as a sheet, with pale red hair. people often describe him by his white skin. Why should I mind?

SweetGrapes · 09/09/2010 19:58

Today at play area there was a group of boys playing (all 4 year old) and we could hear one of them bossing the others 'the white boy' does this, 'black boy' go here, 'brown boy'....

They had climbed up and were visible but only just.

The dad of bossy socks was down below having kittens and trying to tell him 'he has a name you know...' but they weren't listening.

After a couple of minutes we heard 'red boy' and 'stripes boy'...
pmsl - he was doing shirt colours not skin colour.
So 'brown boy' was a white boy in a brown shirt, 'white boy' was a black boy in a white shirt, ds is brown but wearing red, so he was 'red boy'....
I think they were totally oblivious to the skin colour.
Long may they stay that way!!

Original poster

savoycabbage · 09/09/2010 22:59

I think I minded because she didn't need to say it at all in the first place and then she did the whole 'sorry, I didn't know she was yours thing'.

All she said was that her dd was 'playing over there with that mixed race girl' as she pointed over. Or it might have been 'the' mixed race girl. This was after school and there were two groups of children. One of the groups were playing tennis. The other group was this woman's dd, my dd, another school girl, about two of three boys and about four pre-school children. One of whom is my other dd. She was dressed as a halloween cat..... right I am over it now.

I said 'you can just say girl' and I think I overeacted now. It is a minefield and now I feel like I am adding mines to the field.

Gingerwig, do people really say 'that boy with the white skin' to you?

OP posts:

gingerwig · 10/09/2010 00:14

yes they do! he has really noticeably pale , almost see through skin. People often say "he's so WHITE! " or similar.

To further your discussion, I find "mixed race " an odd turn of phrase! Because if the dad was Dutch and the mum was welsh , the kid would probably have pale skin but not be refered to as mixed race.

So when someone says mixed race they are really meaning darker skinned than those around them, right?
So why not just say that?

I think people are so wary of being considered racist they tie themselves in knots worrying about what is and what is not acceptable to say

gingerwig · 10/09/2010 00:15

sweetgrapes, that's perfect!

Appletrees · 10/09/2010 00:34

I think if you mind you can say something without being oversensitive. But a couple of days ago someone said to me "you need to speak to x, the tall black guy" and it was the first time I heard it in the UK, I think things have changed a lot (for the better) from ten years ago when you really couldn't.

But I think "mixed race" does sound a bit perjorative actually. Not like "the Indian girl" or whatever. I don't know why.

My children are used to saying the Indian kid, the Italian boy, the Korean teacher, the English girl etc, I mean, not all the time but as an identifier. But not really using colour as a descriptive term. I think nationalities come more easily than colour somehow.

I don't think it's foolishly oversensitive. If it matters to the person, it matters. And it still can be an indicator of people's opinions.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 10/09/2010 07:56

well ginger, assuming the dutch and welsh person were both white, a child with a dutch dad and a welsh mum wouldn't be mixed race, would they?

Because a white dutch person and a white welsh person are both caucasian. Making the child caucasian? Not mixed race?

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