Describing people by the colour of their skin

[savoycabbage]

I have just had a bit of a 'heated discussion' at school about describing people by the colour of their skin.

I would rather people said 'the girl with the pony tail' about my dd rather than 'the mixed race girl' but other people said that it was no different from saying 'the girl with brown hair' which actually I wouldn't have noticed.

Now I don't know if I am being too sensitive.

I would prefer people tried to describe my (mixed race) kids without resorting to their skin colour if possible. I just think it's a crass to call people 'that black girl', 'that white boy' etc.

I try not to do it myself.

Dunno. I think it depends on the circumstances.

If one of my sons was standing with a group of white kids (quite usual where we live ) and I wanted to point out to someone which one my son was, I could say.

"The tall one,no not that tall one, the other tall one, no not that tall one the slightly shorter one, ok, the one in the blue top, no, the dark blue top, no, the one on the left, oh no, he's moved, he's on the right now, no, not that one, ok, the one with brown hair, no, not that one, the short brown hair, no, not that one...

Or I could say, "there he is, he's the mixed race lad"

If he was the only one wearing a blue top, then I'd probably say blue top. because either would equally identify him from the rest of the group around him.

Yes, quite sensible Hecate.

But you do have to be mindful, I suppose is what I'm saying. I've lost count of how many times I've heard people say 'that black lad' or 'I was talking to this Asian lady' and I just think....if they were white would you have felt the need to tell me/point it out?

Oh yes, I agree with that. It baffles me when people drop it in when it is irrelevent (ie not needed in for example the way I described above)

Oh, I bumped into this really nice white woman yesterday, we had a good chat.

I saw a white man fall over in the street this morning.

You wouldn't, would you?

Oh, I bumped into this really nice chinese woman yesterday, we had a good chat

I saw a black man fall over in the street this morning

is the way many people talk.

I would certainly be very interested to know why people do that.

VERY INTERESTING!!!!

Is there any problems with racism in this school, why this is sensitive?

I do not think it was meant to be racist.

My sister once told me about something which happened to her husband. As it was quite a while ago I will tell the story from what I can remember. My brother in law was out once, a child must have seen him and said something like this to his mum "look mummy its a chocolate man"

I do not think the child was being racist as he just saw the connect with the colour. HOWEVER I am not sure what his mum said to him afterwards. This would have been an opportunity to let the child know that he is not a chocolate man but rather he is a black person.

I think sometimes people say things without thinking, whilst some say things and its taken the wrong way

How ofter do people say a chinese person when they could be from thailand or an indian person when they are from sri lanka.

I am black.

I think would have minded within the context but I'm not sure if I would have said anything.

The other woman could have said

"My dd is playing over there"

"My dd is playing over there with those children"

"My dd is playing over there. She's the one with plaits/the pink hairband etc."

I don't think it was meant maliciously on a conscious level at all but by mentioning it when you wouldn't have said 'the white girl' or any other physical description then it hammers home that she sees the OPs dd as 'other' and a bit different and the whole apology suggests she thinks different, but not in a good way.

I don't mind my dcs being described as mixed race in circumstances that require a physical description. It is more appropriate imo to say the mixed race girl/asian girl/ginger girl than to try and skirt about and pretend you haven't noticed. I would be about them being described as mixed race when a description is unnecessary such as 'X played in the park after school with a mixed race boy' rather than 'X played in the park after school with a boy in his year'.

I think its totally different a child commenting on a persons skin because they think its interesting/novel and an adult commenting on a persons skin for no reason.

I think an important point is that the OP did mind her dd being described by her skin colour and the RL people in the 'heated discussion' should have accepted that she doesn't want her labelled as such rather than trying to justify themselves. 'Mixed race' does have baggage that 'brown hair' simply doesn't have. The OPs dd may have had problems with racism in the school that the OP doesn't want to divulge to the other people so if she says she doesn't like it she shouldn't be quizzed about it or made to defend her position. Its like not questioning someone as to why they aren't drinking, or why they haven't had a baby when they have been married 5 years. It could be for no reason at all but there could be a tragic and private backstory.

It was instinctive when I said something and then I found myself in a whole discussion about it. Defending why I did say something. And then nobody at all could see what I meant so I felt a bit silly. I was saying that people can just say the girl with the pony tail or pinafore or red shoes and they were saying that how was it different from saying pony tail. But in that moment it felt different. Why did she have to use the colour of my dd's skin as a location point for her dd! Describe your own damn daughter!

It is different from when I child does it. That has happened to me loads of times and it is fine.

We have been really badly racially harrassed in the past to the point where we were driven out of our home so perhaps I do think about it more than I should. We live in Australia now.

See, I've always thought it's ok to refer to "brown skin" and a descriptor, and I agree with the caveats abouve about only using it when necessary. But I was taken aback by an article in the paper recently where the father of a mixed-race girl felt very strongly that to do so was racism. I can't find the link but it was in a weekend paper, either The guardian or The Telegraph (I read both!!)

If you avoid using skin colour as a describing feature it is almost implying that it is a negative thing to be not white, in the same way that you would avoid describing someone as fat.

Actually I wouldn;t have a problme with someone decribing me as fat to distinguish me from someone else, though usually because I am tall people would describe me as "large"

However I wouldn't expect to say "i was talking to this fat woman yesterday and she said that the new doctor in the practice was great".

Same goes for colour - but thats already been said.

This topic reminds me of when (some) people talk about something bad that has happened, they will often refer to the colour of the skin, if it is a black person. I quite often hear tales of, "...it was a black guy/woman..." but have not really heard people describe, "...it was a white guy/woman..."

Sensitive? I don't think so...

And another thing that gets my goat is if someone is talking about being mugged or attacked and the amount of times a white person will say, "were they black?" WHY?

I don't think it is racist in the slightest to refer to someone as "the white man" or the "black girl". After all, they ARE white/black, are they not? How is it different to referring to their hair colour or the sweater they have on?

I actually think tht "black" or "white" is OK - but I am not so sure about "mixed race". For one thing, how do you know? Black people come in lots of different shades. "Mixed race' has echos of racism and value judgments and historical associations, and I really think it's best not used except by the person concerned.

I would say "black" I think.

Think OP felt sensitive about her DD being picked out of a group of girls unnecessarily. Don't think you are being oversensitive. It was a little rude and prob person who said it will be more aware & think about it. But, not sure if its clearly racist though, if your daughter is the only non-white child then she does stand out, like if she was only white child in group of black children. Anything said unnecessarily that makes others feel uncomfortable is a bit rude IMO, and it did make OP uncomfortable