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Original poster

Landlord says he's starting legal proceedings TODAY.....How much time have we got??

79 replies

swiperfox · 23/05/2005 11:04

He is adamant that we are behind in rent (which we are now, but not as much as he says) We have another house to go to but can't go for about another 10 days or so....

Once he has started proceedings how quickly can he throw us out??

OP posts:
Magscat · 01/06/2005 10:19

Hi Swiperfox. Don't know if you still need this but my Housing mate has come back with this:

Assured shortholds:

  1. If it is a fixed term tenancy (ie 6 months) then the landlord can regain possession at any ime after the end of the fixed term without giving any grounds. They do however have to serve 2 months notice that they require
    possession. If the tenant does not leave on the specified date the landlord would still have to apply to court for a possession order. If the
    tenant still does not leave the landlord would then need to apply for an eviction warrant.

  2. The landlord should serve at least 2 weeks notice seeking possession if they are seeking mandatory possession on ground 8, which is rent arrears.
    The arrears should be at least 8 weeks (weekly rental) or 2 months (monthly rental) at the time of the notice being served AND the court hearing. In those cases the court has to give possession. Again the tenant could sit it
    out and force the landlord to get a warrant of eviction.

  3. The landlord could also go for discretionary ground 10 - which is also rent arrears but does not specify what level of arrears, the court has
    discretion as to whether to award possession in this case. Again the tenant could sit it out and force the landlord to get a warrant of eviction.
    Again the landlord should have served at least 2 weeks notice seeking possession.

So in any case the landlord must serve some form of legal notice, and if the tenant does not leave on the specified date they must get a court order - which will give a date the tenant should leave. This can be immediate, within 14 days, 28 days or at the Judges discretion. When I have been to Court I have only ever got possession in less than 28 days if we can give some indication that the tenant has already left the property or has made alternative arrangements.

Hope this helps & let me know if you want me to find out anymore.

Original poster
swiperfox · 01/06/2005 10:23

Thanks magscat - so it appears that all ways he still has to give formal notice which I don't think his letters qualify as.

Dp was going on at me about the windows this morning. Our windows on the first floor do not meet fire safety regulations (ie if there was a fire we'd have no way to get out) and he thinks that there is no way they should have rented out the house like that and I should be adding that in my letters....do you know anything about that? The landlord has now said he will get the windows replaced but we've been here 2.6 years

OP posts:
swiperfox · 01/06/2005 11:44

This reply has been deleted

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Flossam · 01/06/2005 11:45

can't do any harm, can only help you. i would. hope you get everything sorted.

Magscat · 01/06/2005 15:08

It can't do any harm to take pics of the windows but if the issue is lack of escape route then the pics alone might not prove the case because they won't show all available exits (or lack of them). I.e. if the windows are only inappropriate because of the way the flat is designed then you'd need to show the flat design as well.

Where I live the Fire Brigade do free visits to individuals to advise on fire safety so it may be worth finding out if you can get the same. I would imagine if you had a letter from the FIre service advising you your window design is not appropriate for your home as you have no other means of exit then that might be something your landlord would take notice of.

What exactly would you want the landlord to do if you gave them evidence that the windows are a hazard? Would you expect them to forget about the arrears or would it be just to make sure they get the windows replaced like they've said they will? I don't know if you'd get anywhere with the arrears angle because it's a completely different issue.

Original poster
swiperfox · 01/06/2005 15:12

We live opposite a fireman and he said he could get someone to do the checks for us. The landlord has written and said that he will get the windows changed to meet fire safety regulations. I'm not that bothered as we are moving anyway - it's more dp that goes on about the windows. I think he just wants to have as much wrong-doings on them as possible because he's scared they're going to throw us out before the move is organised.

OP posts:
Magscat · 01/06/2005 19:30

Hopefully your dp is reassured now that the landlord can not chuck you out without proper legal notice and a court order - both with a minimum period to run.
There's probably no harm in having a list of provable faults with the tenancy but doesn't seem like you'll need it if you're moving soon anyway.

Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 10:32

.
Am sooooo livid this morning with that effing estate agent. I sent him a letter saying that I had been to CAB etc etc so this morning I get a letter back this morning with a formal notice requiring possession with 'COPY' stamped across it so it looks like it's been sent before - we've never had it before!?!?!?! What do I do??

OP posts:
LIZS · 03/06/2005 11:34

Can you call CAB again and ask if the notice letter should have been sent recorded delivery, the EA can prove you have previously been served notice if it wasn't, surely ?

Incidently both the NAEA and ARLA have codes of practice with which members are supposed to comply. If yours claims to be such a member and doesn't, perhaps you could lodge a complaint, or at least threaten to do so ?

Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 11:41

Thanks LIZS i will def look into that. Have been trying to call CAB all morning as I can't get there today but can't get throguh. I want them to put a note on my file that I've received this today so that there is some record of us only receiving it today.

It says on the notice that we should have been out on 8/4/05 and that court proceedings will begin after 4/2/05. Does it mean anything that he's supposedly served this notice and then done nothing about it until now?

OP posts:
Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 11:43

It says in our tenancy agreement that if we want to give notice it has to be sent recorded delivery, but if the landlord wants to give notice then to be given "...to him by name at the address of the Premises....."

which it wasn't.

OP posts:
Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 11:46

while i'm at it, does that mean that he has to give it to dp as it's his name on the tenancy and not mine?

OP posts:
LIZS · 03/06/2005 12:44

No idea but sounds likely that it should have been served personally. Hope you can get clarification from CAB and reach an amicable solution. Any progerss on your new place ?

Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 12:45

All they're waiting for is our guantor's p60. His accountant is taking his time though - wish they'd just hurry up and do it so we can just go!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 12:46

*guarantor

OP posts:
Magscat · 03/06/2005 15:09

Hi Swiper. I'm pretty sure that when my HA issues a notice they do it in person - never through the post - but I'm not sure what happens if they say they hand delivered it when they didn't. Will try to find out.

If the EA reckons it's already been to court then the court would surely have a record of it and of the result. Maybe someone at CAB could follow that up for you.

I'm not sure what to advise cos I'm not directly involved in Housing Management but will contact someone & see if they know. CAB is your best bet though or is there any other voluntary service for free housing advice near you ?(we have Key House project in West Yorks but not sure if they are only local).

Magscat · 03/06/2005 15:34

OK. The word from my Housing Officer freind is:

The landlord still needs to apply for a court date, the court will notify the tenant of the date of the hearing and when they receive that summons they can file a defence - ie that they never received the notice. Unless the Landlord sent it recorded delivery they can't prove otherwise and it will be up to the judge to decide who to believe.

SO - he can't have got it into court without you knowing cos otherwise you would have had a letter from the court and you still have the notice period to vacate AFTER the court ruling.

Hope this helps - I'm advising in an unoffical capacity though so get CAB involved to give your argument more clout if you want to quote some of this at the EA. Hope it sets your mind at rest thoguh.

giraffeski · 03/06/2005 15:40

Message withdrawn

Original poster
swiperfox · 03/06/2005 16:36

Thanks Magscat you're a star A man came to the door ages a go with a letter from the estate agaent - I'm almost certain it was a 'warning' letter and not the official notice that we got a 'copy' of today. When the man came, dp wasn't in and he wouldn't hand me the letter, he made me close the door and put it through the letter box - but even so, it wasn't given to dp as their 'contract' suggests they should have.

Got an email from env health today, a man is going to come here on Monday to inspect the state of the house re damp etc.

I know it's all a bit late as we are going anyway but this estate agent has wounbd me up to the point where i'm not letting him get away with anything now whether we're going or not!!

OP posts:
Magscat · 03/06/2005 20:03

I don't know if it helps but here's a link to Shelter's advice page about Assured Shorthold Tenancies (ASTs). It says that with an AST a court would have to give the landlord possesion (i.e. grant the eviction) in the case of arrears but it also says that only the court (not the landlord) can do this so if you have not heard from the court then the landlord can't chuck you out. I.e. you would have to get the summons letter from court first - regardless of what notice he reckons he's served you with.
A Notice Seeking Possession is a specific legal document (and I think refers to the Housing Act 1988) - you would have noticed it if you'd seen it - it's a proper form not just wording within a letter.

I don't know how the courts work but I would have thought that if you contact your local Magistrates court they could tell you if the landlord had requested a hearing to get a possession order.

Magscat · 03/06/2005 20:04

P.S. - Post back & let us know how it's going.
What are you going to do next? I still reckon CAB or other Housing Advice unit (like Shelter) is your best bet.

Magscat · 08/06/2005 07:21

Hey Swiper, how are you doing?

horseshoe · 08/06/2005 14:11

Swiperfox,

I would most certainly be a bit careful, In my expierience, the estate agents advised the landlord of all sorts of things and when I went to court they had sone the same re letters and they even handwrote on a typed inventory that I had a lawn-mower and kitchen goods. They tried all sorts and although they tried to sue me for 4000 and didn't get all of it, the court still granted them 1100 and i had to pay court costs.

I would advise do everything. take pictures, keep letters, record every little bit of dealing you have with them. I lost on a technicality (didn't get a receipt when I handed back the keys)and the estate agents were quite happy to sit opposite me in the court room and lie through their teeth.

Original poster
swiperfox · 09/06/2005 20:34

Wow what a week it's been!!

I got in touch with the Environmental Health dept as advised by CAB. The guy came to inspect the house and basically said that with regard to windows, damp, insects etc etc we don't have a leg to stand on. I showed him the illegal clause in the contract which he wasn't amused with. Also showed him the 'copy' of the notice so he called the estate agents and warned him that he better be doing things 'properly' and to send proof that he served the notice when he said he did. EA said he had sent it recorded delivery and had a signature to prove it. Then I got an email from the env health man saying that the EA had sent him a witness signed form to say that the notice was delivered by hand to the house. A man did come and deliver something by hand but it was a letter threatening eviction - NOT a formal notice. So I'm going to go to CAB again and see where I stand.

We lost the house we thought we were moving to a couple of days ago because they refused the guarantor's reference after a lot of running around and grief. Today we went to Southampton to find another house - called in last minute to collect our bank statements etc which they still had - got into conversation about the house and mentioned that we could have only paid 3 months up front, not 6 so the lady said she would try as a last resort to ask if the landlady would accept 3 months.....she did!! The move is back on!! She's ringing us with a moving in date tomorrow I've got such a migraine!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
Magscat · 09/06/2005 20:58

Wow. That all sounds a bit mad. No wonder you've got a headache.

I hope the Southampton house works out for you.

Is the EA still hassling you to get out then? They've not backed off at all? Flippin cheek.
I've never heard of anyone producing a 'witness' to say that a notice was delivered.

Let us know how you get on at CAB. Fingers crossed for you.

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