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Original poster

Criminal Convictions - who can find out?

32 replies

Technofairy · 23/04/2009 21:22

One of DP's colleagues confided in him today that he was recently caught drink driving. It hasn't come to court yet but he is expecting a years ban at the very least. Quite rightly so.

He occasionally needs to travel with work and has up to now used hire cars, which is the norm where they work. Non drivers use the train. Whilst he is fairly confident that he can come up with some excuse as to why he now wants to use the train for business journeys he is worried that there is some way that his employers will be able to find out about his conviction, when it occurs, as it would be considered to be misconduct and could result in disciplinary action. He could lose his job.

Neither I or DP have the first idea about this but I thought that someone here might. I can remember that years ago our local paper used to publish a list every day of verdicts at the magistrates court (yes, really!) but this no longer happens. Is there any way that his employers would be informed of his conviction by the court or is there some sort of information source that they could consult? Convictionsareus.com for example.

I wouldn't normally go to so much trouble as to ask about something like this but this chap was so lovely when DS was ill and helped us in so many ways that I do actually feel sorry for him even though by his own admission he's been a right dickhead.

OP posts:
HappyMummyOfOne · 24/04/2009 08:03

If he uses hire cars that presumably the company hire, then the company would normally do licence checks.

Many employers now use online licence checks and if they use such a system they will discover any ban or points.

shinyshoes · 24/04/2009 08:18

Like Happy said.

They won't know unless specific checks are run.

I can't think of any excuse that hecould come up with to use public transport now except that he's on medication that can cause drowsyness and it's advisable not to drive.

Could he not come clean, has he a good work rep before this.

Not really much help am I!

morningpaper · 24/04/2009 08:19

He should tell his employers because it will invalidate their insurance if he does not declare it BEFORE ANY INCIDENT to their insurance company.

morningpaper · 24/04/2009 08:20

However, I see no reason that they should fire him. His company should have a policy on employing peope with criminal convictions and he should check that. Also see a Rep. and then speak to a sympathetic manager imo.

hf128219 · 24/04/2009 08:35

If he is just using Hertz, Avis etc he will be able to hire a car once his ban has expired.

If the company has pool cars he will have to inform his work as the company will have to disclose it to their own insurance company.

Original poster
Technofairy · 24/04/2009 18:00

Thanks all, he's already decided that he won't be driving between now and his court date so he doesn't need to inform his employers re insurance.

Licence checks are done annually by the line manager - it's just a visual check apparently - so nothing online or any cross referencing with DVLA.

I guess then that he might just manage to keep his employers in the dark about his conviction. I just wasn't sure whether court hearing details/convictions were available in the public domain for anyone to look up.

OP posts:
hf128219 · 24/04/2009 20:05

The disqualifaction stays on your Driving Licence (paper part) for 10 years after conviction.

Original poster
Technofairy · 24/04/2009 22:51

Yeah, I know. DP says that the manager only asked to see his photo card licence. He offered him the paper part to look and but he just said 'no, I just need to check this'.

The manager doesn't drive so I guess he doesn't know much about licences! Very poor. I guess DP's colleague will just have to take the risk that someone will within the next ten years actually ask to see the paper part of his licence if he wants to use a hire car. Either that or he's just going to have to use the train till he gets a clean licence back. His look out though.

Thanks all!

OP posts:
morningpaper · 25/04/2009 11:53

Are you suggesting that he wants to continue to drive AND hide the fact from his employers? The risk he is taking is NOT that someone will ask to see the paper part. The risk he is taking is that he will be involved in an accident WITH NO VALID INSURANCE. He will then be liable for all costs - which could easily run to thousands of pounds.

It's not worth it. He needs to tell his employers.

RumourOfAHurricane · 26/04/2009 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

marmitebabe · 26/04/2009 16:21

Is it the sort of job that he might be required to drive for work reasons or may need CRB check? If so then they will definitely find out.
Also if he can't pay fine one option that court fines office can use is an attachment of earnings, in which case they will also definitely find out.
Personally I think its always best to come clean with the truth, but then I'm looking at it from the other side of the bench. I don't suppose you know what the reading was do you.....?

purepurple · 26/04/2009 16:26

I am sorry but we are we trying to help this person?
He has been caught drink driving. If he loses his job, it's no less than he deserves.

TonyAlmeida · 26/04/2009 16:39

They publish all the mag court things in our local paper. Justics is supposed to be local and transparent, hence.

TonyAlmeida · 26/04/2009 16:40

YOu lot who are so critical of the drink drivers need to see the AMOUNT of normal people like YOU who are banned because of ONE mistake often, often with a lot of mitigating circumstances and NO damage or accidents.

MIAonline · 26/04/2009 16:54

No damage or accidents is just through luck TonyAlmeida, one mistake is too many, especially when it is not just the person drunk driving that is at risk. take it from someone who knows.

One drink is too many, keep to that rule and there wouldn't be any mistakes.

LaDiDaDi · 26/04/2009 17:00

I disagree with drink-driving entirely but I know at least three people who have been convicted of it and whilst they all deserved to loose their licence I don't think they deserved to lose their jobs when a full clean licence wasn't part of their contract.

I think that the op's friend needs to check his work contract very carefully and make sure that they don't make the situation worse for themselves by hiding the conviction.

Snorbs · 26/04/2009 17:09

People like me don't get done for drink-driving, TonyAlmeida, because people like me don't drink and drive. I lost a couple of good friends to a drunk driver many years ago and I strongly believe that only a fool would risk it. To be caught over the limit isn't a "mistake", either.

purepurple · 26/04/2009 17:26

I don't drive so I can drink what i want. And losing your job is a small price to pay against someone who has lost their life because someone was too idiotic to not know that you don't drink and drive

Original poster
Technofairy · 26/04/2009 18:17

Thanks all but I think it did make it perfectly clear in my post that I do not in any way condone what he's done.

I asked for advice on whether his employers could find out about his conviction so I'm really not interested in having a debate about the evils of drink driving.

However, some background. He was breathalysed the morning after having a meal and sharing two bottles of wine at home with his wife. He wrongly assumed that the alcohol would have been out of his system by 9am. He never drinks and drives in the usual sense. The only reason he was breathalysed is because somebody ran into the back of his car whilst he was stationary at a red light. Police came and both drivers were breathlysed as is standard procedure. He was only just over the limit, the police said another hour or so and he would have been fine.

Not quite so cut and dried now is it? I wonder how many people who say they never drink and drive could be caught out like this? Many I suspect.

OP posts:
pavlovthepregnantcat · 26/04/2009 18:28

In my job, working in criminal justice, I have a crb check done, allegedly every 2 years but does not always seem to follow as my last one is out of date. if I was to be caught drink driving for example, in another area, that resulted in a ban but no community order my employers would not know, until the crb check is re-done (although in reality my employers would find out, more to do with the grapevine and the fact that most drink drivers receive some kind of community punishment/rehabilitation order.

If the licence details are checked every few years as they should be, he will be checked, if he is stating he is not driving for a reason they feel might change again they will still check him if travelling by train.

IMO, it is just as much gross misconduct to not inform your employer of a conviction, it demonstrates lack of honesty. Many employers are supportive of drink drive convictions (for some reason ), in that, while they do not like it, they will accept it and not necessarily fire the member of staff. However, they will absolutely fire someone who lies about it.

TonyAlmeida · 26/04/2009 18:31

Snorbs
what about the woman who was moving her car to park it better in an empty car park so she could get a taxi and lives iin a village wiht a disabled husband?
That is worthy of a YEARS ban rather than a 6 month one for getting say 4 lots of three points over 3 years? FOUR warnings...
I dont think so.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 26/04/2009 18:35

Oh and imo, also, to drink over the limit in the morning after a drinking session, is probably more dangerous, as you add several other factors to the equation - 1) you are more tired, as you do not sleep well after a night of drinking, so you are tired/hung over and under the influence of alcohol so your reactions would be even slower than if you were just over the limit 2) you think that you have no alcohol in your system so you do not check your behaviour in a way you would if you had 2 glasses of wine and drove (ie you would know you had alcohol in your system and try to drive even more safely, although not necessarily so). Alcohol does still affect you in the morning, and it is irresponsible for people to not understand the affects of alcohol on their own bodies. Ignorance is not a defense.

TonyAlmeida · 26/04/2009 18:36

Yes and they often get people in that manner. I bet a lot of people on here have done that.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 26/04/2009 18:39

Well, from my own point of view, If I drink more than a couple glasses of wine in an evening, or if I drink past 11pm, I do not drive before midday the next day, for that very reason.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 26/04/2009 18:44

it takes approximately 1 hour to absorb 1 unit of alcohol, with the time starting from when the last amount of alcohol was drunk. So a bottle of wine containing an average of 12 units of alcohol would take 12 hours to leave the blood stream. This varies from individual to individual, what is eaten, when it is eaten, so can be a bit more, can be a bit less.

So if you stop drinking at 12pm, and have drunk 1 bottle of wine, you would not be free of alcohol until Midday. if you drive at 9am you would have 3 units of alcohol in your system approx, and for some men, and most women, this is over the legal drink/drive limit. If you drove at 7am, you would definitely be over the limit.

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