Could I be charged with fraud?

[BiscoffCheesecakes]

My dad died a few years ago & he left his estate to me & my brother. My db asked me to look after his share of money. At the time he told me it was because he wasn't very responsible with money & I knew more about where to invest etc. So I've had all the money in my name in various accounts & just transferred him money if he needed it for holidays etc.

I'm not particularly close to him & didn't know much about his work situation. He's always been a bit cagey about it so i don't ask. I now know he is on benefits & after seeing a post on here recently, I realised he wanted me to look after his money so he could carry on receiving benefits.

If there are investigations in the future could I just say that I wasn't aware of his benefit situation? Or will I or he be charged with fraud?

I know of someone who did similar after an inheritance ( around 80k) -her money is in some kind of a family trust though and she gets occasional lump sums paid over so is never over the limit of what you can have to claim benefits- she is somewhat odd though and id bi polar diagnosed, I think it was done for that reason - to be fair I always thought it a pisstake and a way of avoiding having to use the money towards living, rather than claiming full benefits .

You can’t do that on benefits. It’s deprivation of assets. You cannot refuse an inheritance and then continue to claim benefits. They will treat you as if you still have the money.

But he did everything he could to hide it, but eventually UC will find out as they check probates etc. Some people manage to get away with it, some people get caught years down the line.

It doesn’t matter if he never got the money in his account, the legal position is that the money was his and he refused it and continued to claim benefits. That is deprivation of assets and they would treat him as if he did have the money and stop his claim. It’s even worse for him because he didn’t actually refuse the money, he just had it hidden in someone else’s account so he can still spend it all he likes. That’s benefit fraud.

Take a look at the Reddit benefit pages. It's frightening how much benefits fraud is taking place. It's happening all over the place and us poor tax payers are the mugs that stop it up. Most of the fraud doesn't get reported as such as all the benefit claimant has to do is pleased ignorance. It then gets logged as an overpayment and is recovered in tiny amounts each month from their benefits. It's staggering how many people on there are getting caught and all they get is a £50 fine and it doesn't actually get logged as fraud.

Ah ok, thank you for explaining. I presume you mean UC as opposed to benefits as a whole.

Any means tested benefits is the same - not just UC

He didn’t refuse it. His money just happens to be in her account.
And you cannot legally refuse an inheritance if you are on means tested benefits so you can keep them.

Not having his money in his possession doesn’t change the fact that it’s his and he can be considered as having it for benefit purposes.

Ok I understand. Thank you.

You still deprived yourself of 10k in terms of benefits.

You won’t have any issues because it wasn’t legally traceable to you and presumably if asked your mum would just say she wasn’t gifting you 10k to match your siblings.

Technically though what you did, regardless of reason, is fraud. Just happens to be fraud that you could never be caught for.

The DWP consider intention, not just the facts.

The case I worked for with CMS was a man who’d inherited 325k 6 years previously.

Not only did DWP and HMRC (as he claimed tax credits as well as other benefits) go back and work out what he was overpaid, but CMS then re-calculated his maintenance as he’d been on the set benefit rate (currently £7 a week) when he should have been on a full rate. It took months of working out, and he faced criminal prosecution as well.

He’d tried to hide it by putting it in an account in his brother’s name. He himself was the sole executor as well. The money became legally his the moment the distributions happened.

If it's a disabled discretionary trust then it's legal. The money is not hers because it has been signed over to a trustee who is allowed to spend it or invest it as they see fit. If they choose to use some of the money for her benefit they can, but they don't have to, so it isn't counted as hers, even if it was left to her.

Crikey that's really sneaky! Glad he got caught.

I still hope OP doesn't get dragged into it too much as I don't think she really deserves to be punished. The brother yes but not her.

I do not get money and have no access to it. I just get items when I need them that my mum buys for me.
I have had a review with the job centre and they did not ask anything about me having a new bed or anything like that or where the money for that came from because I never had the money to begin with.

And you'll get away with it, no doubt. But at the point your Mum said 'I'm going to give you three girls £10,000.' and you said 'Oh don't do that, it will muck up my benefits.' and she said 'Ok, love, I'll keep hold of it and you just tell me when you need some of it.' , you were deliberately depriving yourself of capital.

I did not say that at all and that is not what happened. I do not get money only things I need. i do not have access to my mums money. it is hers

How do I prove to th DWP that I have £10000? It is not in my account and never has been. I do not have access to it.

"She wanted to gift us some money which was about £10000 each. My sisters had the money but because I am on benefits and also struggle with things like budgeting my mum looks after my share and it is in her own bank account. My sisters have spent all of theirs but I have a lot left."

Maybe you didn't mean to suggest that your Mum was keeping the money aside because you are on benefits, that you have a share that the is looking after which is yours, and that you have a lot left.

What you describe is deliberate deprivation of capital.

If in fact your Mum didn't intend for you to have about £10,000, isn't keeping it in her account with you in mind, isn't looking after money she and you consider yours, and you don't have anything 'left' because it isn't yours in the first place, I apologise for misreading.

How do I prove to the DWP that it is mine? I do not have access to it.

Close enough to be happy to take full responsibility for his money and basically issue pocket money to him

but not close enough to know he was on benefits and didn’t work

very odd

He's had quite a bit of his money already in dribs & drabs over the years, for instance to pay for holidays. He doesn't have a huge amount left actually

The amount is relevant @BiscoffCheesecakes

How much initially
how much left

Yes because I'm good with money & chose investments wisely. Quite enjoy it actually so I didn't mind at all being in control of our money. All it then takes is for me to transfer money to him when he needs it for holidays etc

But no, we're not close and I have no idea about his day to day life

You don't 'prove it'. You declare it. You put it in the 'any other savings' section of your savings declaration in the journal. For example, I deal with DD1's money. She has some money in her account, and some that I receive on her behalf and keep in my account for day to day spending. Once per month, I declare that portion of her money that sits in my bank account alongside the money that is in her account.

Just keep it and give back as and when needed, it’s not your problem.