Could I be charged with fraud?

[BiscoffCheesecakes]

My dad died a few years ago & he left his estate to me & my brother. My db asked me to look after his share of money. At the time he told me it was because he wasn't very responsible with money & I knew more about where to invest etc. So I've had all the money in my name in various accounts & just transferred him money if he needed it for holidays etc.

I'm not particularly close to him & didn't know much about his work situation. He's always been a bit cagey about it so i don't ask. I now know he is on benefits & after seeing a post on here recently, I realised he wanted me to look after his money so he could carry on receiving benefits.

If there are investigations in the future could I just say that I wasn't aware of his benefit situation? Or will I or he be charged with fraud?

He was executor too and fully involved with all the executor duties

This has got nothing to do with the OP' question about committing fraud, though. No amount of "but big corporate tax avoiders" arguments is going to help the OP and just derails her thread.

It's not a tax issue. Why would HMRC be interested?

It's not a case of "That's that."

The DWP can investigate and go back to the point of inheritance. Then they can look at the amount of the inheritance (inheritance>£16,000 closes the claim, £6000<inheritance>£16000 attracts interest tariff of £4.35 per £250 over £6000). They can then decide that the brother has Notional Capital of however much he would have had if he hadn't given it to his sister.

Then, they'll look at all the things that money has been spent on and if any of it was unnecessary, decide how much he would have had at any one time, had he not spent money unnecessarily.

Then, if his claim should have closed, they will look at how long the money should have lasted him. If the claim should have had interest deductions but not closed, they would look at how long it would take for the interest deductions to wipe out the capital.

Then they will work out the overpayment and take it back.

It’s entirely possible to be angry about both multi millionaires finding tax loopholes and someone who wants to carry on claiming benefits rather than use his own money.

it sounds a real mess and extremely dodgy. The money is his and the OP has colluded in keeping it in an account that’s not in his name to ‘hide’ it

It's relevant for the moral angle.

You are the one who has handled the money though by what you’ve said.

Was his name on the executor account?
Did his share go straight into your account or into his then yours?
Do you have his request to keep his money in writing? Have you kept a ledger of what he has taken with dates etc?
How much money was there in the beginning and how much is left?

If all you’re going to say is that he was also an executor then there’s no further help people can give. There’s a huge difference between hiding 7k which would have temporarily reduced benefits and 500k and advice is massively different.

THis thread worries me. Years ago my mum inherited some money after her mum died. Nothing was left to me or my sisters
She wanted to gift us some money which was about £10000 each. My sisters had the money but because I am on benefits and also struggle with things like budgeting my mum looks after my share and it is in her own bank account. My sisters have spent all of theirs but I have a lot left. If I need anything then my mum goes and buys it using the money. I needed a new bed this year so it was used for that. The money never goes in my account and I was never named in a will.
Is that fraud? Am I going to get in trouble?

You are on the right side of the law. The difference is that money wasn't willed to you. Legally, it's never been yours. Your mum could say that she never gifted you the money, or even intended to; she simply keeps a savings account for unexpected expenses you have, but the money is hers for her to do what she wishes.

The money is not legally yours in any sense, though. As in, if you wanted it for something and your mum said no, there's bugger all you could do about it.

@User9138383 there is nothing wrong in your situation.

Your mum gave money to you sisters - not your business.

Your mum occasionally gives you money - gifts are ok from a DWP point of view.

The fact that your mum is choosing to ringfence some of her own money for you is not dodgy.

You likely won’t get in trouble as there’s no legal trail showing the money as yours because it was left to your mum. It’s hers to gift to you every now and again if she wishes, and she could say “you’re not getting another penny” at any point so you have no legal right to the money as it is hers. That would make it very difficult, if not impossible, to prosecute as hidden money.

Some people will say that morally having 10k that is seen by you all as yours is money you should have taken into your account and reported accordingly since you have benefitted from it.

@User9138383Yours is very different from the OPs as her brother legally inherited the money. You didn’t, you’re being gifted it by someone else.

Yes, that is benefit fraud. You have been given a gift of £10,000 which would reduce the benefits you get. Instead of putting it into your account and telling UC that you have been given a £10k gift, you’ve hidden it by telling your mum to keep it and just buy you stuff you want.

You are allowed gifts from family when on UC and they don’t count as income. They do count as capitol though, so once your capitol goes over £6000, your benefits start to reduce. You are legally required to tell UC about this. You are committing fraud by hiding this £10,000 gift.

But since they have no way of knowing and you will get away with it, my guess is that you won’t put the money into your name and won’t tell them.

When I was on benefits they did one of those random checks on me and they were asking me about money coming into my bank accounts, who it was from and for what purpose. I mean they were literally asking me about £100 here, £200 there. So he does need to be careful.

Absolutely, this.

OP, I think it's more likely that your brother will be the one in trouble. But I would make it very clear that you can't hold the money for him any longer and ask where he would like you to transfer it. If he protests, "so you're gifting me the money to do what I like with? Because money in my name is legally mine?"

Yes, it's fraud. Whether you get in trouble depends on whether you declare it, are asked about it, or it is found out about.

You should have been declaring your savings monthly, and each declaration asks if you have money held for you by someone else.

If he has no money under his own name then he's not actually done anything wrong. Though morally obviously it's dubious.

But it's not your fault if he does get done for benefit fraud. Presumably he can just use the savings he's been hiding via you to pay it back?

But yeah of course if asked you just say you have no clue about his personal finances and just help him out occasionally. As you are more financially stable than him. But I don't think they'd even get you involved?

Don't hold me to this as I'm not expert. But you personally haven't done anything wrong I don't think? Assuming you didn't initially know your brother was on means tested benefits.

No it's not. Both are immoral. And moral arguments don't help the OP being liable in a potentially criminal activity.

Yes, he has. You are not allowed to give money away when on UC. They count is as deprecation of assets. The money was his. He can’t refuse it and continue to claim benefits. That’s deprivation of assets and it isn’t allowed. But he didn’t refuse it and give it away. He hid it in someone else’s account. That makes it benefit fraud. He very much has done something wrong. Don’t give advice when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I was never given the money though. If I need something then she buys it for me.

Not being in his name doesn’t change the fact it’s his money - the will will have shown his entitlement to X amount of money. That being in the OP’s account doesn’t make it not his for benefit purposes. He has tried (and so far managed) to hide it so the DWP are unaware, but he has committed fraud as it’s his money legally.

He is the co-executor of his father's will and had complete control over what happened to his money. He asked his sister to look after it for him. He's not given it to her, he's still getting it off her as and when he wants it. Even if he had given it to her, he's deliberately deprived himself of this money in order to carry on claiming benefits. This is benefit fraud. And now the OP knows what is doing and is assisting the fraud.

And that’s still benefit fraud. Your mum said, “here is a £10k gift” and you said, “can you keep it in your account so no one knows I have it.”

It’s your money, been gifted to you. You’re just hiding it in her account and she buys stuff for you.

That is benefit fraud. Same as if she handed you £10k in cash and you kept it under your mattress and didn’t tell UC.

You are committing benefit fraud. Up to you what you do with that information as you’ll get away with it. Comes down to your own morals at the end of the day.

Her mother inherited the money and gave the other sisters £10k each. The poster didn't inherit any money and was not gifted it - her mum sometimes buys her stuff. How is this fraud?

That is not what happened. I did not tell her to do that at all. It was her idea because I struggle with budgeting.
I did not ask her to hide it. I was never given it. She just buys me things instead. It is her money and in her account.
My sisters had the money. My mum bys me things I need instead.