Help with Banking suggestions for elderly

[MsIncognito]

Hi all. Not sure if anyone can help. We’re based in Scotland so would need to be something we can do here. My father is constantly getting caught out with money being taken out of his account by con type subscriptions.

He is a menace. He cannot help himself and just buys junk off of Facebook adverts etc. I am not kidding when I say we have cancelled and requested a new bank card at least 9/10 times this year. Almost monthly.

The issue is he legitimately “subscribes” to quizzes or vitamins etc etc because he’s bored and lonely. He won’t help himself. Won’t go out or join any clubs is technically challenged and doesn’t remember what has been told to him or shown to him every single time I try to unsubscribe him.

I am at my wits end. The only thing I can think of is to take over his financial management for him and remove his bank card with a chip in and only allow him a debit card to draw cash to do his groceries but this is not convenient as he lives in a village that doesn’t have many cash point machines and he’s too lazy to walk far to get cash for the one grocery shop he does per week.

He lives a 40min drive from me so for me to get to see him I need a good three hour window which is a struggle. Takes me an hour and a bit in travel time and the rest of the time is spent trying to fix his technical issues and has become a frustration and chore just visiting him. I feel selfish not doing more but I am so fed up of these problems that I dread visiting him. It’s never a pleasure anymore. Don’t know if he’s getting dementia or just switches off when I try explain anything vaguely technical on his phone etc. because he says he doesn’t understand.

He keeps asks for more apps (instagram) and QR scanner so he can vote in Strictly come dancing or see TV schedules etc but I know it’s just another route to him spending money he doesn’t have and getting scammed.
He’s getting over £140 taken out of his account monthly and is now refusing to cancel his card again, and now can’t even buy his grandchild a Christmas present as he has no savings left.

any ideas??

The bank can put a restriction on his card where he has to call and explain what he is purchasing to have it removed for online purchases, but he doesn't seem very willing from what you've written, recurring transactions can be blocked from certain companies so he wouldn't be able to make purchases. Do you speak to the bank on his behalf (third party mandate/POA?) I'm surprised they haven't flagged it with Care after the repeated card stops.

Do you have PoA?

If so activate with bank and get online access. Be careful about asking for restrictions as RBS cancelled the EPICF’s (elderly person I care for) card when I asked them to remove the cheque book.

Sibstar is a paid for account that allows carers to control/monitor spending. I wish I’d moved over to them.

look at elderly parents board. Loads of help there.

I’ve spoken to them and all they’ve said is I have to take legal steps to handle his account. They’ve really not been very helpful. And that was in person.

He can request for you to have third party access to his account, which will give you some control and ability to talk to them.

But definitely get POA set up to make life easier in the future.

Unfortunately if he’s choosing to spend the money and understands the eventual outcome (debt etc) then he has the right to make “unwise” decisions.

Infuriating.

Which bank is it?

It boils down to whether he wants help or not. Some banks like Barclays allow you to add a trusted person to the account but it has to be with their cooperation.

If he doesn’t want help and he has capacity you can’t do much.

Don't know why my reply was hidden. All I said was that I had Googled vulnerable persons accounts and was surprised how few solutions they appeared to be.

There seems to be a gap in the market for a product where a trusted carer could control spending by requiring pre approval for certain types of retailers.

@Bjorkdidit i totally agree NatWest / RBS actually own Go Henry.

but they haven’t got a product in place to support those at the other end of life. And won’t issue a Go Henry card to anyone over 16.

It’s increasingly hard to function without a bank card. Not everywhere takes cash. And if you live remotely how do you ensure the person has access to cash. The vulnerable need access to their own money in a format they can spend it with safety nets in place.

Trying to sort this out for EPICF has just about finished me off and I’m a tech savvy, highly literate middle aged professional with lots of privilege. Goodness knows how others manage.

This is what I’d like to see

Thanks. What is POA? And I’ll look up the two things you suggested. Thank you.

It’s TSB. And he keeps asking for me to sort it out and needs help. So yes he does want me to help that’s the issue. He just wants me to fix it but just cannot seem to comprehend what he is doing. He cannot seem to grasp that clicking on these things has consequences. He says I want a quiz as I’m bored and it’s only £2.37 etc but then the amounts go up and up and suddenly there are unexplained amounts being taken out too. But I cannot be 100% sure it’s not something else he’s subscribed to as he alway just says I don’t know or I don’t remember

That’s exactly what I’m going through. 😭

@MsIncognito does he have his bank details saved to his phone? Like Apple Pay or something. If so, The first thing to do is to ask him if he'll agree to removing it.

But if he put it on in the first place, there's nothing to stop him doing that again.

PoA = power of attorney.

if your Dad still has capacity ask him to do the paperwork. Otherwise you will need to slog through court of protection.

Would he agree to a joint account? you might not be able to stop him spending but would have joint access to see types of transactions etc.

There are 2 power of attorney
1 for wealth
1 for health
You can set these up for your father using the below

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

He might but it would be foolish of the OP to take out a joint account with him as if his inability to manage money led to credit history problems then it will also affect the OP due to the financial association.

If she has a mortgage or wants to use credit it would be very restrictive and expensive.

Would a subscription to a legitimate site work?

At the moment it sounds like he's doing something similar to 'my child spent £1700 on coins in an ipad game' where its designed to trick you into spending money and exploitative of anyone who doesn't understand that's how they get you.

I won't name the site for fear of MN hiding my post again but I Googled online quiz subscription and there was a result that I've heard of that starts with S that is $3.99 a month, although I don't know if that's the total amount so if you signed him up to something like that would he be able to stick to it and not go rogue in the shady underbelly of the internet?

As long as the accounts have no overdraft it shouldn’t affect their credit rating. You can be financially associated together without detriment.

But do you trust him to not also take out a credit card and forget to pay it, or get behind on some of his utility bills because there's no money in the account because it's all been taken by scammers? Or buy lots of things using Klarna and get behind with the payments? I wouldn't.

Prepaid cards can be used to limit spending. The fees can be minimal. Martin Lewis Money Saving Expert website might be a start.

I’m afraid I would print out the Power of Attorney for finance paperwork and put it in front of him to sign. There’s a bit more to it than that (as there should be) but the paperwork is very clear and easy, off the .gov website, you don’t need a lawyer or anything. I sold it to my mum as ‘you make the decisions, I’ll do the legwork’ which was actually true but God the difference it made to be able to help from a distance by being fully set up with online banking access, my own debit card etc, to be able to reassure her when she panicked etc. In her case she then lost capacity completely overnight and again I have blessed that decision every day as managing her affairs is as easy as it is possible for it to be.

TBH do consider getting this moved to the Elderly Parents board where many grizzled veterans of the situation will know exactly what you are going through.

This wouldn't be for Scotland. In Scotland you need to draw up your own power of attorney, preferably using a solicitor, and then register with the Office of the Public Guardian in Scotland: https://www.publicguardian-scotland.gov.uk/. Sounds like it would be worth doing so you can have a formal role in helping your dad with his finances.

Omg apologies for not realising this was Scotland.

Is there a way to at least limit the damage by segregating his funds? So he only has a relatively small amount in the account with a card and the rest in an instant access saver which is only accessible by transfer to the main account?