I think my mum has been scammed for a trust

[miniworry]

I've just spoken to my mother (age 67) who has informed me that in July she used a company to put her house into trust with both my brother and I as the beneficiaries.

When I asked to see the trust so I could just read through it (my brother doesn't yet own a house so I wanted to see if this affects his qualification as a first time buyer) my mother then informed me that's she's actually had no paperwork at all about the trust, she was just sent forms and then signed them. Apparently the company told her that she doesn't need a copy as they keep all that info here'.

My stomach immediately dropped and I asked her how much she paid ... £4000 🥺 I've since looked at the title documents from the land registry online and I can see that she is still the legal owner.

The company is viva planning and even one look on their website gives me the hunch it's not legit.

She's been scammed hasn't she? What are the immediate steps I can take now? My worry is she has no idea what forms she completed so only knows what she's signed over!

Obviously this is a question for a proper tax adviser but the government website indicates that CGT tax is payable in some scenarios on disposals. Most beneficiaries want the trust wound up at some point I would think? How did it go OP- did you find out what happened?

Having just spent the last 2 years sorting out a relative's estate with a trust (sounds v similar), it has been a complete nightmare. Made everything significantly more complicated. I would love to meet the will writing company and solicitors who got the relative to do this and given them a piece of my mind. Even selling the house after their death was more complicated with a solicitors name on the deeds, and the reluctance of some conveyancing solicitors to take it on. Make sure you get the trust wording and spend time getting to understand the implications.

And just to add, on re-reading your posts, it isn’t clear but you seem to think that the shady company successfully applied for LPA, and this has come through? If so, this is most definitely fraud, and needs to be revoked immediately. (And contact police presumably). Have you checked the paperwork to see who is named as power of attorney? Your mum may have done this through her local solicitor, with you as the named attorney , in which case you can relax on that at least. However, setting one up, and activating one are not the same thing, so I would look into that… Does it have the stamp of the office of public guardianship on it, in which case it is ready to be used when needed (and you can step in and help run her finances when the time comes). Whether it’s fully registered yet or not,I’m not sure whether it can be overruled or not by a subsequent application? This stuff is a minefield!

If you hold LPA did your mum have capacity to make this change. Personally I still think your mum has been “sold” a product she clearly didn’t understand although Viva acted as a consultant the point is that you now have to unpick this because your mum was treated as a commodity by viva. I bet this second company are not legally qualified lots of companies can set up as estate planners and are completely unregulated.

My point is my late parents’ house was in a life rent trust, when the house was sold after their death, the trust ceased to be, and the house reverted to the estate of my deceased parent. There was no cgt to pay when the house was sold, either by the trust or the beneficiaries of the will

is my point @MrsJeanLuc

Whatever you do, OP, don’t register an LPA with a bogus company!

Hi OP - I wanted to say thank you for sharing. I think this is the kind of thing my mum could get taken in by. She is very worried about care home fees and has already talked about equity release (I’ve explained why it’s a scam). I have also said many times that I am not bothered about her money, I just want her to be comfortable. I will now keep a closer eye.

I hope it all works out for you x

That’s is absolutely awful. I would say she was not in her right mind getting all of these documents signed by neighbours (!) and cancel everything via a solicitor.

what a nightmare

OP you could also try Trading Standards as they may be aware of this company and can also give advice on scamming. Also Action Fraud www.actionfraud.police.uk/

If there is anyone else on this thread who has been duped by McClures or Jones Whyte, please PM me.

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The client can revoke the LPAs if she still has capacity. This is done by signing a deed of revocation and sending that with the original LPA to the OPG.

I went on their training courses (for the free CPD) many years ago and was horrified t hat they were trying to get t he delegates to refer almost all clients to them for lifetime trusts for a large kickback.

i left feeling that this was Going to be a massive misselling scam.

just last week an acquaintance of mine told me her husband was going to put all their assets into a lifetime trust “to save IHT and care fees”. I strongly recommended against it but her husband had had his head turned at some fancy presentation in a hot el wit h a free lunch and was going to go ahead with it anyway 🤦‍♀️

It's very worrying that so many older people get taken in by these trusts and scams. If only they would run major financial decisions past an accountant or their DC first before signing.

The elderly try and do financial stuff, in my experience it never ends well and the person they are trying to help end up running around trying to fix their crap.
They need to invent a Go Henry card for the elderly so we could see and approve all transactions prior.

What an insulting, patronising, ageist post! The woman is 67. Lots of people I know in their late sixties and early seventies are still working. You do know that the retirement age is intended to be 67, then 68 in the not too distant future, don’t you? There are going to be lots of doddery feeble old people (by your definition) still holding very responsible jobs soon. How will you cope?

I’ve done a bit of research on viva planning and their linked legal firms. If you check these legal firms trust pilots (lowest score) there are plenty of red flags from customers advising avoid. If these firms are appointing themselves as trustees you are allowing them total control. OP mother sounds vulnerable and sadly POA can only mitigate so much.

I would agree - lots of my colleagues are in their late 60s! I think these scams are very sophisticated and prey on the very common fears around care home fees. It’s easy to think people don’t understand the full implications due to age but lots of younger people fall victim to other scams.

@Lovemycat2023 I agree with you. I am 67 and used my mother's financial LPA for ten years (she died recently). The OP's mother has presumably never been very financially acute, I can't believe it's getting to 67 that is the issue.

OP you have already made great steps in getting to the bottom of this. I wish you luck with sorting out the trust. So many older people fall for the line about avoiding care fees and I honestly have no idea why they even want to. If you pay for your own care (like my mother did) then you have choices about what you get. If the local authority pay, you have beggar all choice, and it is likely to be very basic. All her money went on care fees, I got no inheritance - and that's fine with me.

@DBD1975 Thank you so much for posting, I was thinking of answering one of those "write your will for £99" ads, I'm so glad I never got around to it!

On top of making your own investigations, I would contact the Land Registry in your situation. You can serve fraud-watch paperwork on them so no transfer of deeds can take place without extra checks being undertaken. It means taking ID to a solicitor to have extra verification and obstructs fraud. I did this when someone tried to steal my empty house and raise credit there, while I was away providing care to an elderly relative. I tracked him down and set the police on him. I was surprised this was even possible until I spoke to helpful staff at the Land Registry who told me it happens.

Just to echo what other pp are saying - your Mum may have made a poor financial decision, trying to look out for your future, but this can't be put down to age-related intellectual decline at 67. Research indicates there may be a slight decline in speed of processing at this age, indeed from late 50s, slight memory decline, e.g. word finding, but no significant changes in reasoning abilities & sometimes better weighing up of decisions in the broader context. If you're seeing anything more, she needs to see her GP.

Both your parents are likely to feel flustered and embarrassed about having been rail roaded by this company, like anyone would who's been duped. And that can make someone appear confused. You could help her confidence by resolving this with her rather than sorting it for her. I'm just a few years younger than her and would be mortified if my kids tried to take over and resolve a mess I'd made like this, though I'd be grateful for extra ideas about what to do. I still give them financial advice and they need it!.

If I have stopped just one person from going down this route it makes me very happy.
They are absolute con artists and should not be allowed to get away with it.
Please trust me you have dodged a bullet.
I just hope once it becomes more widely known action will be taken.
My solicitor said to me, in terms of miss selling, these £99.00 Will writers are going to be the next national scandal. They are not regulated and it is basically the 'wild west' of Will writing!

It's so worrying that your mum is only 67!

It really does sound as if you need to step in now sadly.

Way to go! Respect @SandStormNorm . As mentioned above you can also set an alert on your property via the land registry so if there is any activity relative to the property eg someone trying to sell it from under you ( yes it happens) you get notified.
www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

This is outrageous. I would use a solicitor to pursue this company relentlessly and argue aggressively for a full refund.

Do everything you can. Report them to everyone possible.

Your poor mum. I was surprised she is only 67. I need to speak to my parents!