Both work and we claim UC but still can't afford to live.

[Mocha1]

We have 3 kids, 2 who aren't at school yet, my husband and I both work 30 hours a week for charities so not highly paid. We also have childcare for part of the week and then juggle the kids between us the rest of the time (We don't want to work more as we dont want the kids in fulltime childcare). We rent and down't own. We claim UC but we are still really struggling to make ends meet. We really try to live to a tight budget but I have no idea how to lower our expenses any more.

Am I missing something? Is this normal? does anyone have any tips for saving money/ making more income somehow? I feel a bit at a loss as we keep dipping into our savings for just day to day expenses and we're nearly at the end of those.

Our income at the moment (I'm on MAT leave) - £3980
Outgoings- £4250

Do these outgoings seem like a lot for a family of 5 living in the south west? I've been going over our budget and I have no idea how to save any more unless we literally never bought another birthday present or went to a soft play ever again.

Honestly I thought this was a wind up - “we choose to work part time in the charity sector and we choose not to use regular childcare but the tax payer isn’t topping us up enough”.

Many posters reading this will themselves be struggling to juggle full time work, child care, bills and paying their taxes whilst just over the threshold for support. These are the people who will take the hit of more taxes to fund your lifestyle choices. Do not be surprised if they object to funding your lifestyle choices which they themselves cannot afford.

On a practical note, whereabouts in the SW are you? 1400 per month for long term rental seems high unless you are in the cities (in which case you may be able to move further out for cheaper rent).

Maybe you should have thought about the logistics before choosing to have three children on part-time wages.

You could quite easily earn more - you're choosing not to.

Fairly recently as in most of my aunts and uncles had 3/4/+ kids in the 80s/90s. That’s fairly recent in the grand scale of things. 1 generation. Northern working class for reference.

Everyone I grew up with had multiple siblings and a load of cousins including myself. Prior to that grandparents had 6/7 kids. All in 3 bedroom council houses. Might not be the most luxurious upbringing but personally we had a big happy family. Grandad was a window cleaner and Nana worked as a dinner lady.

I don't blame you. It is eye-opening.

But let’s be honest…their choice to have multiple children was rarely a “choice” back in that day. Yes, even in the 80s.

That might have been your experience, bit statistically it wasn't common then.

Neither of you are working full time, that’s a luxury you can’t afford really.

I did my life wrong if people can choose to work part time, have 3 kids and then moan that uc doesn’t pay enough

She is currently on maternity leave so there shouldn't be any childcare costs at the moment Her husband could work full time or get a second job to make ends meet.

But then they would lose some of their Universal Credit.

Yup. Me and my partner work every hour god sends in high pressured jobs to provide for our children. The notion that OP is a special case and shouldn’t have to work full time or her kids be in childcare more to make ends meet is baffling.
You choose to have children and you therefore choose to have to do what you have to do to make it work. I’m shocked that ‘earning more’ wasn’t the obvious solution to OP. What father of 3 only works 30 hours whilst the family is crippled financially?

@Mocha1

I would imagine the rent is one of your biggest outgoing along then with council tax - other than getting council accommodation you're not going to get cheaper rent - even Manchester for a 3 bed is £1400 a month

so from the £3900 odd you have incoming - your rent and council tax is taking up £1600 of that leaving you with £2,300 for the remaining bills and childcare costs - which for two children not at school is still going to be high cost even with the 30 hours childcare from government.

If you drive then you have possibly got yourselves a catch 22 cost - if you don't work you don't need the car, but if you do work it costs you to work and cars aren't cheap to maintain, with fuel, MOT, servicing, insurance etc Owning a car or two could be adding £800 a months to your outgoings and if your earnings for 2 weeks work are only just covering the costs of keeping two cars - its a lot of money

maybe you also have debt?

Your income is around £46000 per annum and for 60 hours a week your hourly rate including U.C. is £15 an hour

There are budgeting tools online, maybe sit down and go through everything you spend https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/budgeting/budget-planner this is a tool that citizen advise use.

Sit down together with all your paperwork and bank statements and go through everything you spend - then get help for any possible debt

good luck

@EvilNextDoor It’s what a relative did. Some people just don’t want to work and expect the state to pay. It’s shocking and no one did this 50 years ago. It was considered shameful not to look after dc by your own work.

@Mocha1, surely you can see one or both of you needs to work more? You need to earn more money, it's very simple.

It’s private rents. They’re a joke.

That’s why we need decent council housing again.

Families shouldn’t have to have both parents working full time just to pay for basics, even though most have to these days.

Housing and energy are the biggest costs these days and no one should be making huge profits from those basics.

OK. So if they have made a choice to have the taxpayer subsidise their household income rather than standing on their own two feet, and it's still not enough, that is a problem for them to solve somehow. Not the taxpayer.

Its also a myth that you could raise a family in reasonable comfort on one working man’s wage.

Women were routinely sacked for being pregnant but still took in piece work or went out to work unsocial hours around their husband’s hours. People took second jobs or overtime depending on what was available. Children shared bedrooms, not just in twos but in threes and fours or more. I also knew plenty of families where the children shared beds as bedrooms couldn’t accommodate enough singles.

I often read what used to be “normal” on MN and it is much more what we would have regarded as a middle or lower middle class upbringing which was certainly not the majority experience.

But they don't have either parent working full time.

I suppose 2 adults working 30 hours each is equivalent to one working full time 40hours and one working part-time 20 hours which is not a crazy thing to do with 3 children to manage.

In fact you are probably better off as you likely pay less tax the way you are doing it.

I think private rental is a huge problem for so many people. It just costs far too much as a percentage of income and does not allow people to save for a deposit.

I don't love my house but it's all owned and mine so costs me zero per month apart from all the maintenance etc. I had help from my parents though to buy in 2014 when prices were still quite low. Now I'm looking at moving in the next 12-24 months and house prices to buy are totally shocking. My house cost 197K in 2019 and is now 'worth' over 250K. Now for me going from one house to another it probably makes no difference as I'll just be selling at a high price and buying at a high price. For people who are not yet on the market though that's a huge jump in a few years.

The only people I can see the benefit from rising house prices are people who sell without buying (death sales or sale of additional properties). For the rest of us there is no benefit but it costs more in stamp duty etc to move as these are based on house values. So i suppose the goverment benefits.

OP - my recommendation and I don't suppose you can do it would be to buy anything even if it is a 2 bed flat (and yes that would mean sharing rooms and potentially the livingroom being doubled up as a bedroom).

It would be utterly crap for a few years but it would break the cycle of paying huge amounts of private rent and getting nowhere. It might even let you save a little each month for the future.

There are mortgages now where you can borrow almost the full amount. Do you have anyone that could lend you a small deposit (a parent?)

My house is a 3 bed (ha, 2 tiny doubles and 1 single) and not particularly huge. People renting similar sized houses here in town in Scotland are paying about £1400 too. It must be soul destroying to pay that much each month.

The reality is we need more children being born to balance out an ageing population. If something could be done about the housing market more people would be able to afford more kids.

Worrying times.

OP just bear in mind that your benefits may be cut at some point given the state of the country and the increasing unaffordable UK debt.

OP your lifestyle does have luxuries though that lots of people, some of who aren’t eligible for benefits, can’t afford. Having 3 children is a luxury, lots have to stop at 1 or 2 as can’t afford it, or can’t afford the lifestyle they want (working part time for example) with more children. Working part time, especially both of you, is most definitely a luxury. Most families have at least 1 full time worker, many have 2. It’s your choices that mean you don’t have enough money, and if those choices are priorities to you then fine but you have to realise that it is a choice for you.

Wow, that’s a bit judgemental. Through my work life I’ve known children of very well off families who are very entitled and become a huge burden on society as they are so used to being given everything and never being told no. As for them expecting others to support them through their taxes it’s no different to working parents claiming the 30 hours free childcare, now that really grinds my gears. Your children, your responsibility.

I know and they shouldn’t have to. Rent and energy shouldn’t be profit-driven.

@nearlylovemyusername
and what the fuck is ‘another liability to society’ mean exactly?

Is it that you, like hitler, view someone’s worth by what they add to the economy?

So my very disabled daughter is a liability to you? She will never contribute, always take from society because she can’t exist without a great deal of help. She’s six and can’t put on her own coat.
I had to battle to get her to the right school, currently on second tribunal to get her transport because all the budgets have been slashed because people like you exist. Who cares about the disabled kids?
They are just liabilities.

Away you go

Is ‘work more hours’ such bad advice to someone who needs to increase their income…?

Like others have said, an eye opener that you can both choose to have 3 kids, work part time and claim UC.

You have the option of getting higher paid jobs and / or going FT to support your family. Otherwise, cut back your expenses.

What are you looking for, another handout the rest of us pay for so you don’t have to have your kids in childcare?

If you have that many kids you must be prepared for the financial consequences.