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Original poster

Brother and mum's money

26 replies

blanketycrank · 04/06/2025 22:52

Hi,

My brother and I both have joint POA for mum - she has dementia and is very reliant on us. Brother lives with mum following his marriage breakdown. Now I will add, he is a good guy and having him live with mum has been a massive help. I imagine he will remain there now for as long she is alive.

So the issue is that I have discovered that he has borrowed £1000 from mum's account and has been paying this back at £100 per month. I am sure that this isn't allowed under the POA regulations? I have confronted him and he was very embarrassed. He explained that he was in a bit of a mess and throught it would be ok as mum would have agreed - this is true, she would have agreed but that isn't the point is it.

Mum has quite a lot of money in her savings accounts and thankfully there doesn't seem to be anything else missing. He also has a credit card in mum's name ,however this was taken out before mum's dementia and I was already aware of this. He does pay the bill each month so I am not so concerned about that as it doesn't impact her.

I don't want to ruin my relationship with him but this cant happen again can it?

OP posts:
Enough4me · 04/06/2025 22:55

Him having POA when he is "a mess" doesn't sound like a sensible idea.
Why is the credit card in her name?

finespineline · 04/06/2025 22:56

Is he also acting as her carer?

Original poster
blanketycrank · 04/06/2025 22:56

Enough4me · 04/06/2025 22:55

Him having POA when he is "a mess" doesn't sound like a sensible idea.
Why is the credit card in her name?

He wasn't able to get one at a normal rate. I have seen the statement and he owes about 2k but he does pay this from his account each month so I am not so worried about that.

OP posts:
tsmainsqueeze · 04/06/2025 22:56

If this were my brother i would be fine with it, my brother is a good man too like yours , he's paying it back i can't see an issue.

Original poster
blanketycrank · 04/06/2025 23:01

finespineline · 04/06/2025 22:56

Is he also acting as her carer?

Yes although he does work full time too

OP posts:
Tourmalines · 04/06/2025 23:01

The problem I think is that he didn’t tell you . But he knows now, so hopefully it won’t happen again .

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 04/06/2025 23:08

You need to ask him to not use the credit card for himself for anything else. He needs to pay it off ASAP.
Sounds like he is living beyond his means and needs to stop.

Original poster
blanketycrank · 04/06/2025 23:59

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 04/06/2025 23:08

You need to ask him to not use the credit card for himself for anything else. He needs to pay it off ASAP.
Sounds like he is living beyond his means and needs to stop.

I agree - It's only used for him. Mum doesn't use credit cards at all so all of the balance is his.

OP posts:
Yellowshirt · 05/06/2025 00:23

Your in a tough situation really.
My ex mother in-law was POA for her mother and totally abused her position. She had interest free loans for allsorts including a kitchen and car and never told her sister or brother who were both struggling financially she had taken money from her mothers account.
Then her neice asked her gran if she could borrow £2000 and she poisoned the whole family against her and still kept her loans a secret

OnlyFrench · 05/06/2025 02:19

My BIL lived rent free with my MIL and had joint POA with my DH, who trusted him.
When she died, we discovered he’d spent all her money, over £100k. He’d used her debit card so we could see exactly where it had gone. He was arrested but the CPS said it was difficult to prove.
For all your sakes, get him to do monthly accounts.

Superscientist · 05/06/2025 11:00

If he thought it was really ok he wouldn't have done it in secret.

Powers of attorney are quite simple you have make decisions in the best interests of the person. We had a situation where a family member was mildly exploiting the position with something I wasn't comfortable with. I spoke to age UK for advice and they advised that if they couldn't be persuaded to stop I'd be within my right to escalate the issue to the court of the public guardianship or the police. Thankfully it wasn't necessary and family pressure got them to stop.

I'd recommend ageuk for advice, I've phoned them previously when I had concerns about other relatives with dementia

Harassedevictee · 05/06/2025 15:06

I think this should be put into perspective. Whilst borrowing £1,000 is not appropriate as a PoA, if there is evidence it is being repaid at £100 per month it does indicate this was not an intentional deprivation of assets but a loan.

I think the non-disclosure is more important in this case. I also think the Credit Card is an issue as it should only be used to buy things for your Mum and be paid from her account.

Have a discussion with your brother and make it clear he cannot do this ever again and that the full £1,000 must be repaid. He also needs to stop using the credit card. Depending on his response you may need to ask him to give up being an Attorney.

Viviennemary · 05/06/2025 15:10

If your brother wasn't looking after your Mum there would be expenses such as carers or even worse care home fees. The money is being paid back so you don't need to interfere.

Summerisere · 05/06/2025 16:42

This wouldn’t bother me.
If you are concerned then you could change the PoA to one where you both have to agree to all financial and health decisions.

Summerisere · 05/06/2025 16:45

Does your DM have capacity (I know it fluctuates), if so maybe she agreed to it?

What would your DM’s living situation be if your DB wasn’t living with her and looking after her?

FrenchandSaunders · 05/06/2025 16:46

He should have mentioned this to you but it wouldn't bother me. He lives with her so he must be doing the bulk of the caring work ... you'd be paying over £1K a week if she was in a care home.

LumpyMashedPotato · 05/06/2025 16:54

Very honestly i couldn't get excited about this.
Obviously he shouldn't make a habit of it but....

Your mother has "quite a bit of money" he is in a short term bind.

He is doing a lot for her and saving you a lot of grief presumably. He isnt being paid to care for her at present.
AND he hasn't stolen it. He is paying the money (which you agree if she had capacity she'd loan him anyway) back at a reasonable rate (its not £10 per month) AND He was doing this before you discovered it.

You are all going through a huge amount right now- he is your family, if he is otherwise a good egg, dont fall out over this - its not consequential.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 05/06/2025 19:04

LumpyMashedPotato · 05/06/2025 16:54

Very honestly i couldn't get excited about this.
Obviously he shouldn't make a habit of it but....

Your mother has "quite a bit of money" he is in a short term bind.

He is doing a lot for her and saving you a lot of grief presumably. He isnt being paid to care for her at present.
AND he hasn't stolen it. He is paying the money (which you agree if she had capacity she'd loan him anyway) back at a reasonable rate (its not £10 per month) AND He was doing this before you discovered it.

You are all going through a huge amount right now- he is your family, if he is otherwise a good egg, dont fall out over this - its not consequential.

Edited

I agree with all of this.

ASuitableName · 05/06/2025 20:17

LumpyMashedPotato · 05/06/2025 16:54

Very honestly i couldn't get excited about this.
Obviously he shouldn't make a habit of it but....

Your mother has "quite a bit of money" he is in a short term bind.

He is doing a lot for her and saving you a lot of grief presumably. He isnt being paid to care for her at present.
AND he hasn't stolen it. He is paying the money (which you agree if she had capacity she'd loan him anyway) back at a reasonable rate (its not £10 per month) AND He was doing this before you discovered it.

You are all going through a huge amount right now- he is your family, if he is otherwise a good egg, dont fall out over this - its not consequential.

Edited

My thoughts exactly. It would have been better if he had told you, but perhaps he was embarrassed. The most important thing is that he already started repaying at a reasonable rate.
Also, don’t underestimate the peace of mind that he brings you by living with your mother.

Nearly50omg · 05/06/2025 22:07

He shouldn’t be using your mums credit card as well as having taken £1000 out her account !! He needs removing off her CC account and also POA removed from him as he’s abusing this and he’s financially abusing your mum in the eyes of the law. Is he also claiming carers allowance while working over a certain ££ period week too? You being associated with this all and knowing about it makes you compliant in it and can get you into a lot of trouble too

CoffeeCup14 · 05/06/2025 22:40

It seems like he has acted in good faith as he's paying it back. And you agree that your mum would probably have been happy to lend him the money.

But there's a risk of blurring boundaries, and potentially borrowing larger amounts. It's not that he's done anything maliciously, but if he has access to her accounts through a POA, he can only act in her interests, and I think it's important to maintain that distinction, particularly as he is in a difficult place financially.

parietal · 06/06/2025 00:01

He needs to document spending and show why it is in line with mums wishes. It is possible to have a loan and repay it under PoA but it just needs to be documented.

why not help your brother set up a system for recording spending on your mums accounts each month so you can both see and agree it. Point out that this will prevent any future arguments or legal fuss.

and if he is doing lots of care, see what you can do to help more.

Sweetnessandbite · 06/06/2025 00:15

I really don't see what the problem is. He isn't stealing it, he knows that she would have approved, he is paying it back at a reasonable rate, not 45p a week. He is doing the bulk of the caring. You have access and have already concluded he hasn't been taking other money.

I would keep an eye that he is also paying off the credit card and the balance isn't huge.

I also agree how much he is saving your Mum on carers.

measureofmydreams · 06/06/2025 07:05

We had a family situation where two brothers had POA for their DF who was in a care home. One brother died suddenly, then during the following 10 months the other brother stole £68K. He was not transparent and had no intention of paying it back until he was found out after the death of his DF.

Your DB is paying back what he owes, and is caring for your DM. Its best to keep your relationship on a good footing and if you think it's right maybe kindly remind him of limits/duties of POA.

In my experience caring for elderly parents is difficult and siblings can be such a support to one another.

fourelementary · 06/06/2025 07:10

Like others have said- it’s the dishonest aspect more than anything that’s the isssue. Can you have a chat to find out why your brother was in a situation? Then perhaps he needs a small recompense for his caring work with your mum to help avoid this again? Or even if you just say he needs to be honest and ask you and you’d be fine with it most likely?

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