The worlds going mad. Am I really part of the problem?

[DHofSB]

Ok, so there’s a lot of talk about the rich, global politics and inequality at the minute and I get it. However, when I look at comments, threads etc people seem to be aiming blame and sometimes hate to people that sound like me.
My real concern, apart from my own sensitivities of course, is for my kids seemingly growing up in a world where being successful is seen as bad and there being little to no desire to strive and work hard any more.

Allow me to explain but I would like your thoughts…

Father was a policeman, mother a part time hairdresser, they’ve been divorced 15+ years now and both retired
No family money or inheritance involved for them, unlikely for me either
Went to normal comp school
I joined the Army at 18
BUT (bear with me, trying to make point not boast)
I now earn £500k+ a year in a white collar job
I have £1m+ in stocks (that I can’t sell yet)
I have a £950k house with no mortgage
My 2 kids go to private school (with VAT will cost similar to our house over their school lives)
My wife doesn’t (have to) work
I have c£90k pension pot (not a viable saving option for me due to my income, anything over £4k a year into pension I have to pay income tax on hence pointless)
AND YET
I don’t feel wealthy, we have a good life (several parents at the school our kids go to have £2.5m houses, how is that possible??!)
I paid hundreds of thousands in tax last year but my family don’t use the NHS (private through work), or the school system, no benefits/welfare etc Obviously other aspects of public infrastructure we do or would consume: roads, policing etc
I work hard and long to ensure I continue to provide for my family, especially once I inevitably stop earning this kind of salary

Modern society seems to suggest I am the devil, part of the problem with society and should be taxed (even more) heavily. Surely what my family and I have built for ourselves is a good thing and something I would expect most people to have wanted to achieve coming from a similar background, or do I have this all wrong?..

I had a private routine operation that went wrong, and was rushed to an NHS hospital where I spent the next few weeks.

I think it’s only possible to have private operations if they’re routine. The big private healthcare providers won’t touch you if you’re high risk.

Others have said much of what I would have said. You are objectively wealthy. Your feelings on the matter don’t alter this, and are based on the company you keep.

Our tax system taxes income more than wealth. This should change IMO, although in your case you would perhaps end up paying as much or more because you are both a high earner and wealthy in asset terms. But I don’t think you’re over taxed. You pay a lot, yes. But taxes should be judged both in terms of pounds and pence and also public utility. Paying less tax would just mean you accruing yet more wealth. Redistribution of this wealth would be helpful to the economy and society. Proportionately the wealthy spend less of their income because there are only so many goods and services that one person needs. Instead they horde it on more assets, increasing wealth and furthering inequality. This is not good.

Nope.

This isn’t true.

If something goes wrong outside of the ‘routine’ you will be sent to the nearest NHS facility.

Is it? What happens if you need A&E? Is there a private one somewhere? Open 24/7 for major emergencies?

Urgh, the last thing I'd do if I had this level of wealth is spend a minute trying to engineer myself into a victim.

People resent the system. It's just how it is. Suck it up and enjoy what you have.

I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that success isn’t celebrated, it is, it’s what most people want for their children.

What people do complain about, rightly, is the fact the wealth gap in this county is much bigger than it was. This reduces social mobility so some one starting now where you did is less likely to be able to achieve what you have. It’s also a lot of the reason people voted for Brexit (because that’ll fix it hahaha).

When ordinary people can’t have a decent house and both parents are working full time with young kids (without the salaries to have hot and cold running nannies) then that’s not a functioning society. Ditto for years of underinvestment - and equally importantly mismanagement - in the health service, education etc.

Given you probably have a bit of clout, stop moping and moaning (what kind of example is that to your kids?) and do your bit to fixing that - if you happen to be in housing breaking the stranglehold developers have on the house building market would be a great start. Building a whole bunch of new houses so we can go back to 3 x salary mortgages and social housing for those on very low incomes is essential.

Also, if you don’t feel wealthy, do give yourself a slap - you are wealthy, not rich, but very well off.

Well quite - very rich people are buying this stuff, of which there are very many in the UK

Can you expand on this?

True, but other than a life threatening emergency requiring ambulance evacuation, it's possible to have fully private health care in London.

What do you consider outside of 'routine'?

No it isn’t

A&E is NHS

And if anything goes tits up in a private hospital, you will quickly find yourself transferred to an NHS hospital for intensive or high dependency care.

@DHofSB

Are you happy ?

Just to clarify “quickly transferred” in my case was them telling DH he had to take me himself by car, because they get charged if an ambulance is called. I was unconscious after a massive internal haemorrhage. Thank God for the NHS.

*DH called the ambulance himself

I’ve heard similar.

Fucking appalling failure to enact yheir duty of care.

Glad you pulled through.

Cool cool. You opt out of paying NHS taxes then. All fine til you need A&E.

Then it’s not possible - ‘routine operations’ being performed by private hospitals with no back up when things go wrong isn’t ’fully private’

I am not saying there are never instances in which people don't end up under NHS care. I am saying that for the most part, it is possible to be treated privately for almost anything in London including some emergencies. It was just a statement of fact, not a value judgement.

That’s not possible to do - no one normally resident in the UK can ‘opt out’ , but it’s disingenuous for anyone with private health insurance to claim they are not using NHS resources - they are.

Well that wasn't me, so not sure what the pp's experience was. The hospitals we have used in London have back up for if things go wrong.

I'm afraid I think you just have to suck this up if you are fortunate enough to be at that end of the money scale because honestly these days I think not having to worry about roof over your heads and feeding a clothing your kids is getting to be more and more of a privilege

You have a relatively unusual outlook on things in terms of the fact that you have raised yourself up socially, which is increasingly rare and where perhaps tax feels more 'unfair' after all your hard work.

DH and I are from pretty well-off backgrounds (though with their ups and downs) but are frankly in a worse position at this stage of life than our parents were and we're looking at our kids having it far, far harder. We earn decently and are fortunate to no longer have a mortgage but if we still had one we might be feeling a bit squeezed even though. To put things in perspective,by the way Google search (not sure how accurate) suggests our household earnings puts us in the top 3% nationally - yours puts you at top 0.5%. Not having a go, but it goes to show how concentrated wealth is.

FWIW, I honestly don't think about how much I am taxed but I do think I should be taxed more. Would I be thrilled to pay more tax? No. Could I still house, feed, and clothe my family if taxed more? Yes. Which is why it makes more sense to do that than take money off people already struggling to keep their heads above water. I think we need cough up and be glad for what we do have which is so much more than most.

For me, to be honest, it's the billionaires I'm really against - there is literally no reason for any individual to have that much power and we're seeing the harm it can do in America right now. If America does escape from what's happening now I can see it resulting in clamping down on individuals' ability to accrue that kind of money because it becomes a threat to democracy at that scale.

Im really surprised you live in a house thats 950k when you earn 500k. Its really not that much for a house. You could easily afford way more.

Sigh. Other than covid shots, we, as a family, have used the NHS once in 20 years. I have never suggested wanting to 'opt out' however. I have no issue at all with paying tax to fund it.

Sigh….

Read before you post.

I was replying to someone who thought it’s possible to ‘opt out’ of paying contributions towards the NHS.

I was being facetious suggesting a tax opt-out. But to suggest that you can get almost-comprehensive healthcare in London privately is to ignore what healthcare actually requires ie emergency back up.

24/7 emergency care for all who need it, in hospital, as a last resort is one reason why the NHS costs so much. It is necessarily an incredibly inefficient service which private healthcare doesn’t have to bother with.

You’ll probably be alright. Probably. But if the NHS didn’t exist then your private hospital wouldn’t either because they wouldn’t consider it safe. Either that or the costs would be massively higher to you because the private hospital would have to maintain 24/7 consultants, diagnostics and emergency surgeons.

You say that you don't use the NHS, but if one of your children gets cancer or you need an ambulance - then you absolutely will (essentially if anyone in your household needs emergency or intensive medical care). So in that sense, you are using the NHS in exactly the same way as many/most healthy working age adults with children. Also, the NHS is keeping your private healthcare / health insurance costs relatively much lower than if there were no equivalent public healthcare system.

My view is that whilst you haven't personally done anything wrong and I don't even know what your job is; generally speaking, salaries such as yours represent a malfunction of society. Other people earning 1/10th are not doing 1/10th as useful or difficult work. That said, disproportionate income through salary is far less of a societal ill than disproportionate income through passive wealth/asset accumulation.

Yes, you are part of the problem, if we're agreeing that the problem is increasing inequality. Supporting private education & healthcare contributes to that inequality.

But, do I blame you for the choices you're making personally? Not really. You're just making your best of the system we have. It's a problem created by almost 50 years of free market radicals whose ideology has stripped the majority of people of their wealth, public assets and social mobility and funnelled it into private hands.