A completely different way of doing my nursery (Katymac)

[KatyMac]

OK

Instead of buying a property - I am considering renting

If I went with this particular option I would be doing it all my self

I would be able to self-finance

I could lose about £50k

I could make some money

It's very complicated

Not sure what I want of MN - just to talk I guess?

What happened to the property you found last week?

It is still a possibility

But this one is better - bigger, the right shape with lots of outside space & parking and the neighbours would like it (well so far three of them)

I sound so fickle - I really have thought about this honest

Presumably you're into financial risk whichever way you go.

Possibly renting might reduce that risk, but would it cost you more longterm?

Are you protecting your personal assets if things go pear-shaped?

Yep

I would take about £30k of unsecured debt based on my existing business (I think)

No - I would need £50K I think

Bummer

Well maybe £40

Oh I'm so confused

yes rent it, you just have to do it. why do you worry so much about it?

Because that's me personality

I stress

I offload my stress on my friends and family and Mumsnet

It's the way I deal with stuff

lol it's not annoying it just must be very frustrating for you.

I will get thee

I will definitely have to borrow £50K maybe even £75 - I had completely forgotten about insulation

50 grand is one hell of a lot of money to be spending on someone else's property. You should make sure that you negotiate a rent-free period with the landlord in return.

Renting is definitely a better option than buying for a nursery start-up however. One word of advice: don't think you have to buy everything when you first open. You can get stuff as you go along. And don't worry too much about the size of the outside area. So long as there's enough space for the kids to run about, you'll be fine.

Hi Katymac (I am stalking you in a non-spooky way iyswim ).

I am either going to register as a CM or ask my CM if she wants to join forces set up in business. There is a real gap in the market here (we live in an affluent area with only one private nursery with a bad reputation).

Looking into it, it is VVVV expensive to set up a nursery so I am thinkging perhaps a playgoup would be a better idea.

I also think renting to start off with is better than buying. I suppose you could move premises if it was really sucessful.

Hi Katymac - I don't really know anything about setting up a nursery but am a chartered surveyor dealing in commercial property so know a bit about that side of things (albeit I have been on maternity leave for the last year and am still suffering from baby brain )

A couple of things to consider:-

1. Make sure you have a good open relationship with your Landlord and have discussed the improvements and alterations you wish to make. You will need his formal approval to the alterations and will need to have plans drawn up etc for the approval. Make sure you have factored in the costs of getting the approvals (Landlords, planning consent and building regs)

1. If you sign a 5 year lease - you will be responsible for rental and all outgoings (rates, possibly VAT) for the 5 years whether your business succeeds or not. It may be worth asking for a tenant only break clause, say, after 1 year. If the business is not working out and you want to walk away, you would then be able to (but would obviously have lost your investment in the property)

If there's any other specific property queries, then I'd be happy to try and help.

It is scary "taking the plunge" (me and dp have just set up our own surveying practice) but the thought of doing it seems much scarier than actually doing it iyswim ?

Good luck Willmouse - keep an eye on my whinges about OFSTED - it will be relevant if you team up

TillySM - thanks for the info

The landlord will be the church so I need to know who will have administrative say in what happens - if it is the local circuit I will be OK - but it might be head office in Manchester which could be terrible

No planning consent necessary as the outer envelope will be unchanged as will the usage. Building regs ae always a bugger (worried about insulation)

Good idea about the 1 yr thing - I will hve lots more questions and will bug you constantly occasionally

Building Regs can be confusing ... generally speaking, most of them relate to new builds - so if you are just refurbishing an existing property (especially if it is the for the same use), then adhering to all Building Regs will not be necessary (possibly the insulation one). Best to get a builder/building surveyor to advise you on the specifics

Church being the LLD is good news and bad; good because they are less commercial than a lot of private LLD's and because you are providing a business which is of use to the community, they are likely to be quite amenable. Bad because sometimes getting the right people/line of communication can be difficult and things can take ages

That's useful to know

Should I meet with the Building Regs chap at the Chapel & have a chat with him

I know him (have worked with him before) & he has always been helpful

I agree about the ommunication - it worrries me to some extent

Don't know a great deal about building regs. I would have thought that if the structure was going to stay the same and you weren't going to knock down any load bearing walls or anything you should be ok.

But I do know the following in relation to building regs:-

1. Any doors or windows which are replaced need to be fitted by a company who are FENSA registered and can give you a FENSA certificate at the end of the work, or if not building regulation approval is required.

1. Certain electrical works require building regulation approval or be carried out by someone who is 'Part P' registered. If you go to the building regs site (somewhere and look at part p it will tell you what needs approval).

Good luck. The building you have found is great. The problem we will have is finding a suitable property.

It's tricky isn't it

I'm not sure whether it would count as a conversion or not tbh

How are you getting on Katymac?

We have great difficulty finding a commercial premises to rent where we want to start up. It is an affluent area which is mainly housing. The only other thing would be to rent domestic premises but I don't even know we would find any of those suitable.

Busy busy - chat soon

Katymac - is it you who has been told that you can't carry on running your business as a childminder as you are by OFSTED (supposedly more like a nursery?)

We were thinking of joining forces, employing a couple of assistants and working from a residential property (subject to obtaining any necessary planning permission). Is this possible do you know or is this what you are NOT being allowed to do?

Problem for us like I say will be finding suitable commercial property in a mainly residential area. We thought that may be a way around.

Plus, we wanted to be unique and as un-institutionalised as possible (iyswim)

Yep that's me

Only if there are only 3 of you - more than 3 and you won't be childminding you will be 'childcare on a domestic premises' which would be a nightmare to advertise

Good news
Planning department say that we don't need planning permission to convert to a nursery

But that we do to put up fences or replace the windows

Bummer

Katymac - why do you think it would be a nightmare to advertise? Could you not just call yourself "lollipops" (for example).

We were thinking of 2 childminders and 2 assistants to start off with.

Good news about the planning. Have you had a quote for the windows and fences? It may not be as much as you think and the property does look perfect.