I've just read that teaches and nurses are only being offered 2.8 percent pay rise.

[caringcarer]

I can't get my head around why train drivers got such a good deal yet teachers and nurses yet again are being given such a small amount. Can anyone make any sense of it? Is it because teachers and nurses are often female whereas the train drivers seem to be mostly male? I imagine we'll now have strikes by teachers and nurses and who could blame them?

OP - what do you think they should be paid?

And whatever that payrise is amount, I assume you are good with your taxes going up the same amount.

Are you suggesting that if Nurses pay went up 5%, your taxes would go up the same amount?

Is that the level of debate now?

@Alexandra2001 eventually taxes will have to go up to support unlimited spending

Well they have to pay more to band 2 in the NHS from April next year otherwise it will be under min wage.

Another sixth form teacher on strike today - we all HATE it by the way! It’s annoying, very disruptive to ourselves rather than students and creates more work.

Also, we ALREADY went on strike for this pay rise when teachers were last out on strike! So it’s doubly unfair we don’t get it now and have to go through all this again for something we already fought for. Note we weren’t offered less than other teachers, we were offered nothing, nothing to us and no funding to college so even if our employers offered us a pay rise, the centre and therefore students would lose out compared to students in sixth forms in schools or academised sixth form colleges. It’s ludicrous and downright discriminatory.

Nope - more HCPs etc staying in the profession, means lower waiting lists, less agency staff, less immigration of HCP's & their dependents, less people on long term sick, all costing a great deal.

Plus monies spent on pay rises, means some is recovered via tax NI VAT and better economic output.

Continually keeping pay down has been a stunning success hasn't it?

I think teachers should stop complaining about how unfair everything is and get on with their jobs.

Absolutely - it's not the amount it's the blatant discrimination. Why do some state sixth form students deserve teachers who are paid more than others? Surely this will lead to more teachers leaving the sector. Beyond that, sixth form colleges are only funded about £4000/student/year but schools are funded £7000/student/year for teaching exactly the same courses. The education system in this country is a joke.

Are you a teacher? Why not? Probably because you wouldn't want to do such a physically, emotionally and mentally demanding job, requiring incredibly honed skills for such a low level of return and a lack of respect from the public. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves because in part of attitudes like this. Without us there will be no education system.

There shouldn't be such pay differences between FE colleges and secondary schools but despite there being some crossover with the courses, it's not exactly the same job, nor is it funded from the same government budget.

I agree that teachers should not have to put up with the abuse they receive from children. At my child's school two nasty boys were kicked out but their parents then took the school to court and the judge forced the school to take them back. Absolutely ridiculous.

Are there any teachers on this thread complaining?

It must be on top of previous rises, indeed.

Not all teachers.
FE college lecturers don't get anything like the pay that secondary teachers do, despite fare more diverse workloads and a greater range of abilities.

Sixth form colleges aren't in the FE sector though.

Aren't they? I think they are. They're not in the same sector as school sixth forms, although having just googled, I think the courses in both are funded through ESFA?

There's no such thing as a "sixth form teacher" in an 11-18 school though. I'm probably as near as you could get to that, but I am still deployed to teach younger students some of the time.

So the jobs aren't exactly the same.

Sixth Form Colleges don’t have the same pay and conditions as FE colleges - they’re really different. I moved from secondary and my pay and conditions remained almost exactly the same. I teach more hours in college than in school though. But we have a broadly similar pay scale and holidays. FE contracts are completely different - pay scales are lower (which is unfair in itself but a different issue to this) and staff get fewer holidays, as well as more hourly paid staff or staff on short term contracts.

The aim seems to be to move sixth form colleges into the FE sector properly which clearly means a lowering of pay and worse working conditions for staff, as well as lower funding. It would be a terrible move as sixth form colleges give amazing value for money! Not denigrating FE colleges in any way as they’re also great and filled with hard working staff, but they fill a different role to us and the two types of colleges can coexist well.

And I know schools don’t have sixth form teachers as such - but having done both jobs they’re materially the same thing.

They absolutely have had 5.5% in their pay packets, or if they haven't yet, they will this month.
What would you like me to read exactly?!

That it’s not funded. This means that it will come out of school budgets directly rather than schools being given extra money to cover it. Schools are already struggling to afford the basics like pencils and books. They will have even less money if the pay rise is unfunded. No teacher would want an unfunded pay rise.

Predominantly female profession. They think you’re more likely to suck it up.

Tax NI higher pension contributions, means they'll be lucky to get half of the 5.5% and with the pay rise coming out of school budgets, that leads to more work, more stress.... less resources.

But it doesn't matter, the best teachers are leaving, just as the best HCPs are... well done you!

@Alexandra2001 everyone has to pay tax. I'm getting taxed on my Christmas bonus.

They're getting a lot more than most people will get.

Well it's 2.8pc more than I got this year, or last year in fact.

I don't see the point of the envy. These are both areas with huge numbers of unfilled vacancies, partly because real pay has fallen significantly, and that touches nearly everyone's lives. Not everyone has a child at school (although surely most people posting here do) but anyone could get sick.

I suppose if one worked in the private sector also in a job where there was a direct impact on nearly everyone's life where there were also many unfilled vacancies and that was due to poor relative pay, that would be fair enough. Are those the kinds of industries posters are talking about?

Although in teaching and nursing we've got the additional factor of the dominant employer. Hence the need for unions. If private sector salaries are too low while bosses are profiting - maybe the unions need to make a comeback?