Council Tax

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Does Labour plan to scrap the single person council tax discount?

Im half expecting to see another thread about this on the MNers without children board.

@Lavendersquare But how is scrapping the SPD fair for a single occupant to be paying the same as a household with multiple adults.

It makes far more sense for each adult to pay the same with reductions for specific circumstances.

I can't see this going. The impact on child poverty would be enormous.
I'm hoping Rayner just didn't know at that moment and didnt want to be pinned down.

And yes, I agree with this, and think many posters seem to be living in a parallel universe.

Agree.

Now if they were to reform Council Tax and reinstate a National Council Tax Benefit Scheme funded by The Government instead of the locally funded schemes that would be a great improvement.

But answer me this, tenants of Social Housing have the 'bedroom tax' if they get Housing Benefit/Universal Credit and have mode bedrooms than they are deemed to need so why should Council Tax payers get money off in the same situation?

@OnlyTheBravest you can make the same argument for the tv licence, why does a single viewer pay the same as a household of 5? Sometimes you have to let go and remember that the SPD costs so much and disproportionately benefits households that don't actually need it.

@JohnofWessex Because the Bedroom tax is being used as an incentive for people to transfer from social housing with excess bedroom space, so larger households can be housed with the appropriate bedroom space for their needs.

Council Tax is used by your local council to pay for services that you use. A single person does not used more services than a household with more than one adult.

@Lavendersquare I understand that tax is less fair for single households but why would you remove something that has been in place for years. Where are these households supposed to just find the money from, especially during a cost of living crisis.

The issue is that working single people are expected to just keep absorbing tax rises but see no benefit. It has to stop. It makes no sense for a single household to pay more when you could ask each adult within a household to pay a share. Would you not think that this is fairer? We all pay for the service we use. It would generate more income for your council and would mean they would be more accountable for the use of that money as every single adult would have a vested interest in what it is being used for.

He would probably moan, but my son is could easily pay a 'poll tax 'separately from his keep he gives us , as long as it wasn't a huge amount and done fairly. He doesn't use facilities like libraries, but he generates rubbish to be collected and street lights are on at night when his out and might need the other services one day that councils provide. I even thought it was fair back in the 80s to be honest and I'm not a conservative at all , but I was using facilities where I lived and didn't pay the ' rates' when I lived at home with parents , just 'keep' money.
It wouldn't be popular at all though or probably be too much for many to pay or hard to implement or people would go 'missing 'from the electoral register , plus it brought a government down and probably would again I suppose with people saying one lot of council tax per household is enough ( although not everyone pays the full amount for whatever reason)
It's a tough one , but we all use facilities and then moan when they are not good enough. I believe it was tried out in Scotland once , but not sure how that went ?

If a single person pays less then surely a large household should pay more?

I don't disagree that single people should pay less, but why should a household of 2 pay the same as one of 4 or more?

Could contribute to DV spike

This.

The government has said they're taking VAWG seriously but actions speak louder than words. Social housing shortages, punitive benefits system, and now potentially scrapping the single person council tax discount.

DV is frequently portrayed as the victim just needing the strength to leave, when really it's often about not knowing if they'll be able to financially survive.

It's also worth noting that other vulnerable people would be affected (even more than they already are). Elderly widows or widowers, and disabled people. Not every local authority gives full discount for people on benefits.

But what's the alternative to taxis to school for SEN children?

A single person could easily use more services than a household with multiple adults. As with all public spending, there are some people that require extortionate amounts of funding and other people that require barely any. If we taxed according to who used the services the most then the poor and vulnerable would be disproportionately impacted.

Personally I feel that the single person discount should be phased out. As PP have suggested, it is hard to administer over and is ripe for abuse.

The poll tax was based on household numbers. Imo it was fairer than council tax but I suspect I might be in the minority in having this view.

I'm not old enough to remember the rates system (that poll tax, and then council tax, replaced) but I think a lot of the outrage about poll tax was because it replaced the rates, which were a lot cheaper than both council and poll tax.

I think also students weren't exempted from poll tax? (I understand many who rioted about poll tax were students?).

Well in the space of a few weeks it has been reported/rumoured that:

Winter fuel allowance gone.
State Pension to be taxed.
Rail travel cards to be axed.
Single persons council tax rate to be axed.

As a single pensioner who is not rolling in money and without a massive property this was exactly what I feared from a Labour government. I’ve lived through several Labour governments over my lifetime and they are always the same.

25% off council tax was the only benefit I got
I don't get to split mortgage, fuel, food shop, gas, electric, water bills or emergencies with any and now I have to pay full council tax?
Brilliant

I dunno where they think single working people on min wage are pulling this money from, I have nothing left

Usually, or often, a household of 4 has a bigger house than a household of two, so they pay more CT anyway.

And the household of 2 in a big higher band house has the option to downsize to a smaller house if they need to cut overheads.

A single person already in a Band A or B property…. What are they supposed to downsize to?

@Houseplanter you are obviously too young to remember the poll tax!

What you are advocating is what poll tax was, a set fee payable by every adult regardless of income. Introduced by Margaret Thatcher it was an unmitigated disaster!

It was so difficult to administer and unlike houses people move a lot and often to other areas, Councils needed huge numbers of extra staff and still couldn't cope with the work. Add to that a concerted
non-payment culture and it was truly terrible, Councils lost so much money and had to write off millions as bad debts.

It was also a regressive tax, where the poor pay proportionately more than the rich so it was never going to work.

I disagree. What services do single people use more of?

Bin collection? Obviously not.
Schools? Nope.
Parks and libraries? Again, no.

Adult social care? It's almost non existent in many local authorities. We can see from threads on here (and I know from several people offline) it's often a major battle to get any help - and often a losing battle.

Single childless/childfree in particular get almost nothing. i.e. lower priority for housing from local authorities, which is particularly harsh seeing as housing is now so expensive that it's hard to find somewhere decent to buy or rent on a single income. Their taxes contribute towards funding our kids, yet if they need help, they struggle to get it.

Also some local authorities don't give full council tax discount to people on benefits. So many of the poorest and most vulnerable - low income pensioners, the disabled, etc, will be even more harmed by scrapping the single person discount.

Single people, both the childless/childfree and single parents, are significantly financially penalised - for something (being single) that often isn't a choice, i e. DV or being widowed.

State pension has always been taxable along with any other income.

A regressive tax where the poor pay more than the rich. I'd say that can equally apply to council tax.

From what I remember of statistics I've seen, the worst off financially in society are single pensioners (I think the studies found especially women pensioners), single disabled, and single parents.

Council tax penalises single people so it seems that council tax is more regressive and unfair than poll tax.

Absolutely poll tax was more unfair than the old rates but council tax wasn't a better replacement.

As for unlike houses people move a lot and often to other areas. In the last couple of decades the number of people private renting has massively increased and as a result people are (often unwillingly) moving areas a lot.

It's so baffling how bin collections and parks and libraries come up so often in these types of discussions when they are so inexpensive compared to the huge costs that burden councils.

As I suggested earlier, the majority of council tax is spent on social care and this will concentrated on a minority of the population. These people could easily be single and arguably might be more likely to be as couples have the ability to care for each other and may be more likely to have children that can offer support too.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/A4%2520STATIC%2520IMAGE_04_1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjZ_ZDWi6eIAxV7Z0EAHXS_KAEQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0jSxG_3MFYU1WEoYtowL4I

My council publishes its spending in massive detail and it is things like social services, housing asylum seekers, state schools I think which are the big ones. Indeed those of us paying nearly £5k (and I house adult children in first jobs who don't pay me the extra council tax - kind me) council tax really should pay less not much more than those on lower incomes because the lower income people tend to make very very heavy use of council services. However both Tories and Labour are very high tax parties at present so there is no hope of a smaller state.

Yes, I think people seem to think that those with big properties are taxed more because they use more services. This couldn't be further from the truth! Those who use the most services are likely to be paying the least (if any) council tax. Obviously not everyone is equally capable of paying Council Tax so it inevitably means that the biggest bills will be directed at those most able to pay, but this is why just constantly raising different taxes always targets the same people who get fed up of paying for very little.

There would be uproar if they did this especially from pensioners who have already lost the winter fuel payment. I guess if someone's CT bill rose though and they are on a low income they would likely then qualify for some council tax discount. Council tax is already so high I honestly can't see how they could do this. They need to come up with a better solution to pay for social care for the thousands who can't contribute towards their own care.