Council Tax

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Does Labour plan to scrap the single person council tax discount?

I keep asking this question but let's try again.

MPs like Reeves with constituencies miles from London need a place to live when in their constituency and in the week when they're required to be in London.

Second homes are not ideal but what is the alternative?

They get paid well so they pay for themselves as everyone else does. Lots of people move for their jobs. She could move to London to be near the parliament then travel back to her constituency and stay in a Travel Inn like others do.

It's a property tax. Lots of countries have it; bricks and mortar are hard to hide.

Generally speaking if you've got a house worth a lot of money you're (relatively) well off.

Broadest shoulders and all that,

@Bumpitybumper Of course the rich pay more (in actual sums, though not necessarily proportional to income).

You do know though that some single people are rich and some single parents pay for private schools. A friend's mother was a single parent but very wealthy and sent my friend to a private school.

Yes the rich are less likely to need local authority social care when elderly - but that's relevant for the childless/childfree as much as people with children. So it's irrelevant to the debate about single person council tax.

Also, poorer childless/childfree people would maybe be less likely to need local authority social care if they could build up savings, instead of being taxed to fund other people's children with their working life taxes.

I'm not saying we should go down that road of saying who takes out more etc. We're all part of society and everyone should contribute (although I'm a parent so I suppose I'm not unbiased, but I have friends without kids who also believe that in shared society).

However definitely nobody can say the child free/childless haven't paid for their social care - having paid out more with less back throughout their working lives.

I'm pretty sure that people working for, say, BP required to work across two places are not normally expected to cover the cost themselves.

RR has kids. Do they stay in the hotel when she's in Leeds?

Are they at school in the constituency or in Leeds?

Maybe she should be in a hotel in London but what would that cost?

Since she can live in Downing Street now she's in government how does that affect the numbers?

The single and child free may well use less services in terms of education but they may well require more social care when they get old and sick as they won't have such big family networks to rely on. Partners and adult children often take on the carer role that would otherwise be fulfilled by expensive state funded carers.

What makes you think single people are less likely to have family networks? Many single people are parents. Statistically the childless/childfree are a small minority. Anyway many childless /childfree people have nieces and nephews, cousins etc. Also an elderly couple often both need care, so would need adult children/extended family or carers just the same as a single person.

I have said on a different thread that even as a single mother, in work full time, I would happily pay extra. If this means I lose the single person council tax benefit (25%), but I also see an improvement in local youth services and local community support (re-open the bloody public toilets please!!!), then I'm happy with that.

Painful as it may be - and I would then be paying about £600 per year more than I am now - I would do it if the money went directly into local social/community infrastructure.

The 25% discount is the only benefit I receive besides £102 per month child benefit. It does feel a little unfair that as a widowed mother I will lose even this.

I want to see something given back to my community in return.

It won't it will go to fund immigrants where they need putting up in hotels.

It makes no sense whatsoever to pay council tax according to property value.

A family living in a house worth 2 mil
does not use more council services that the same family living in a house worth 1 million.

I think if they are going to do this then they need to look at how everything is banded.

I live in a 2 bed flat, not a luxury one, which is band D. There are limited / no 1 bed flats here. There are some 2 bed flats that are band C but ironically they cost far more than mine and I can’t afford them. So exactly how am I supposed to downsize if this comes in? The only things in band A and B are social housing, which I wouldn’t get.

I was literally referring to the 'single AND child free' as in people having both of these characteristics.

Single people are more likely to need social care because they don't have a partner to care for them. A large proportion of carers are partners. They may both be the same age but it's very common that the one in better health cares for the one in poorer health. People that are child free are also more likely to need social care because a large proportion of carers are adult children. It's just common sense. Not many nieces, nephews, cousins are going to devote enough time to become carers in a meaningful sense. Statistics show this.

I don't think any of this is massively controversial in the same way that you can say that households with more people are more likely to generate more waste. There will always be examples where a household occupied by a single person generates more waste than a family of six but this will be relatively rare.

Surely this targets the same people as the winter fuel discount.

My dad living on his own just above the (pathetic) threshold would have to find this too.

Single people surely use less services.

It's most definitely targeting a certain demographic and those more likely to vote conservative. I saw it this way when the chancellor first came up with the fuel allowance changes. I know not every pensioner votes conservative , but they are playing into Reform's hands with all this and it won't go away.
Some will always be under the thresholds my parents always were too and dad worked all his life. I know thats a cliche, but it's how people feel ( although I do agree with means testing the fuel , but always losers with it )
I know it's did

Difficult

I do realise that this is very approximate as it depends on a large number of factors including house size and district,

but I’m I right in thinking that’s about £50 per month extra ?

quite a big difference if so

By your argument @Bumpitybumper any single childfree/childless person who needs social care has more than paid their share. They've paid for the education and healthcare and other costs of raising other people's children. They're therefore entitled to something back, such as if they need social care.

Also if you want to go down that road, then maybe the childless/childfree wouldn't need local authority funded care if their working life taxes didn't fund other people's kids - because they'd have more savings to use to fund their later life care. It's swings and roundabouts when it comes to everybody contributing to society.

Not many nieces, nephews, cousins are going to devote enough time to become carers in a meaningful sense. Statistics show this.

I can only give anecdotes but my dad helped care for his cousin, and my friend helps her elderly uncle.

Slightly related regarding adult children. Commonly the one who cares for elderly parents is the single childless/childfree adult child, because their siblings are busy supporting their own kids.

Separately, many adult children can't or won't care for their elderly parents. Live too far away or can't afford to give up their job or simply the care needed is too difficult to manage for a non professional carer.

Also, something not everyone knows is the council tax benefits were scrapped about 10 years ago. Now each local authority decides how much to discount. Some areas still give a full discount but others only do a partial one.

This means some of the poorest and most vulnerable are already hit hard by council tax. Take away the single person discount and again it will be the vulnerable who suffer. Single parents (including domestic violence victims), the disabled, and elderly widows and widowers on low pensions.

Regarding political allegiances, I don't think it is specifically targeting conservative or reform voters. Single parents, domestic violence victims, the disabled, poorer pensioners, single lower income workers. That's a very large and varied group of people.

Shared minibuses are cheaper than individual taxis.
Getting the bus is cheaper again, even with an escort.
SEN teenagers could have travel training to enable them to use public transport.

There will be many exceptions, kids who can never travel independently etc etc, but children grow and develop - at 12 a child may need a taxi, but by 15 they might not.

A lot of older people are on pension credit though if on a low income and then they get their council tax paid in full anyway, they have nothing at all to pay if in receipt of even £1 of guaranteed pension credit. If they lose single occupancy discount they will likely still qualify for some council tax support if on a low income even if they don't qualify for pension credit. If their bill is higher surely they will get more discount unless they change the way council tax support is calculated?

Like I said, its a tax on property value nothing else

@Lavendersquare

the fact they allow people claim falsely is a 'them' problem. They know our inside leg measurements, they could monitor this far better!!

I don't claim any benefits so how would an increase in council tax benefit me?

reducing everyone's CT ? One minute you're saying it's not means tested so people with £100k income get it too & that's wrong, the next you're saying everyone should get a reduction. Make your mind up!

@Miley1967 I don't know much about the council tax discounts. I know it used to be council tax benefit and everyone on income based benefits got full discount. It's now dependant on where someone lives as it's up to each local authority how much to discount. Some only give a partial discount but maybe that's working age people and it's different for pensioners? Still bad though, as it will affect single disabled people and single parents (including DV victims).

The problem with pension credit, as I understand it, is a lot of people are only a small amount above the threshold to qualify. They're going to struggle with things like the loss of the winter fuel allowance (maybe one solution is still means testing WFA but increasing the threshold?).

@PandoraSox

oh , so happy to provide you with something to revisit.

stop trying to close the discussion down,

Do you use roads, pavements, street lighting, litter bins, recycling, waste collection, parks, schools, leisure centres, museums, galleries, etc? Is it in your interest to have flood management, pest control, trading standards, planning and building standards and environmental health all looked after in your local area? What about the vulnerable people - children in care, in poverty, refugees, the disabled, the old and frail? That’s what council tax pays for.

@JohnofWessex

because I pay my mortgage, not the govt/council?!?!