Council Tax

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

Does Labour plan to scrap the single person council tax discount?

It wouldn't surprise me if this happens as no government of any colours gives a shit about single people. It's all about "hard-working families".

It'll be properly tough for me if it goes, though.

Single people are always screwed over if you have your own place , but as I said below , my son could pay a poll tax. I appreciate that it's not easy for lots of people though and would not be fair for many.

I don't agree with this.

Both Labour and Tory Governments have made plenty of errors in the past, PFI, Black Monday, selling council housing or privatisation (by both parties)

But Austerity stopped the UK maintaining its roads, its public buildings, its public services, it led to cuts in staff in councils schools police and the NHS.
Funding to maintain Hospitals and Schools has been slashed during Austerity, schools held together by props and hospital wards shut due to leaks.

Now any Government has to put right this lack of mtce.

Its like not looking after your house for 14 years and being surprised that it is now going to cost a lot more then if you'd taken care of the house in a timely manner.

I referred to the Poll Tax riot as a riot.

Why stoop to insults? I haven't insulted you. I just explained the background to the ending of the Poll Tax which, as you said, you are too young to remember.

@PandoraSox I apologise. I didn't mean for my post to come across as insulting you personally. I admit I'm skim reading posts so also might not be properly reading what people are saying before responding. I shouldn't really be on here right now as it's a busy day. I should also learn more about the poll tax. You're right I'm too young to remember. I'm interested to find out more now and plan to when I have some time later.

@iwishihadknownmore I completely agree with you about austerity. A dreadful and spiteful policy harming the most vulnerable and damaging society in general - and also an economic failure that left the country in more debt. I just think the problems you mentioned from the previous Labour governments - PFI, continued Right to Buy etc, plus a sort of introductory austerity, like the disability and single parent benefits changes and housing benefit cuts - also contributed to the mess we're in today.

For single parent families this won't work.
And I am so sure it won't happen as I said earlier, because of the impact on child poverty.

Re charging per person, you could look at it as two adults in one house is the most 'privileged ' situation. Single people particularly single parents are more likely to be worse off. Multiple adults are usually cohabiting because

• they are in an HMO because can't afford own place
• adult children can't afford to move out
• someone is caring for an elderly relative in their home.

(Note I said 'usually')
Therefore the simplest way to keep it fair is to keep the current single person discount (which isn't 50% of course) and leave the 2+ adult households paying 100%.

Similar here though I'm still working on a low income. Kids left home now - not entitled to any help at all.
The 25% is the only 'benefit' I get.

Because of house price inflation especially in London and the SE, rebanding by property value would see a single low waged household renting a slum 1 bedroom flat like below end up in a higher band than an affluent dual income owner occupier with a house in another part of the UK. It's not as if everyone can up sticks and move especially those on lower incomes, and anyway if they did that it would add pressure on council services where they moved to...

news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-defends-himself-as-renters-champion-after-poor-conditions-found-in-his-properties-13206274

They should increase it to a 50% discount when all my other bills have more than doubled!

'Right to buy ' was one of the worst things ever to be brought in by any government in my humble opinion. It was a massive vote winner though and made many quite rich ( i know a few , but then I am old)
Not me though.
It's sad the council couldn't rebuild the homes that were sold off , but lots of it was ill thought out and it's now we are seeing the repercussions.

I think public sector pensions are now unaffordable. They need to be replaced with a more standard defined contribution schemes at affordable rates. (eg 8%)
It would save this country (and the tax payers) an absolute fortune.

When some council CEO's earn 260,000 k plus a year , then maybe they could do with a bit of a cull or maybe a pay cut ? Although that would probably be vetoed on the basis that they do need these people and that's the going rate ( and probably a stressful job , to be fair )
The pensions is also a good point too. I'm sure they could have lots of savings everywhere , but it never seems to be those types who they tend to target. Like politicians and their perks , that stays in place.

@Marmight they couldn't just cut the pension as masses of staff would leave for the public sector where you get paid more. People accept substantially lower wages compared to equivalent jobs due to the generous pension. If they cut the pension they'd need to increase wages or lose staff.

Yes, snouts in the trough springs to mind, whoever allowed this? i believe in the 70s or 80s, a Council leader might earn 2 or 3x the average worker wage.

But of course the drive to privatise almost all council services is how they justify these salaries "we are running a multi sector business now" and getting rid of this outsourcing is where the big savings can be made, so much profit and duplication of back office functions that we the taxpayer are funding & same in NHS.

Pensions is rather difficult plus many Council staff have been Tupe'd out of their rolls with loss of pension benefits, pensions are not like for like under Tupe rules, as i can attest, FS scheme went to Defined Contribution and i lost a pension of around 15k p.a in exchange for one worth around 6k.

You cannot take away pensions that are already being claimed.

Anyway, public sector has always been the target of successive Govts to cut costs ie Austerity, who did that hit the worst?

They wouldn't all leave as there isn't the jobs available.

I'm also not convinced that ALL private sector jobs are paid better than their equivalent in the public sector. There is also slightly better job security in the public sector.

There could also be a one off pay rise in the first year to counter if there is a low salary at play. I'm not saying I have all the answers but at some point the conversation needs to start about this because its unaffordable at present.
27% of a salary being paid into a pension (with the associated NI and tax loss) is unaffordable.

Would be interesting if there are stats out there on how much your council tax and income tax is paid into pensions for staff. I might look later.

I work for a section of the council that's been ' hived off ' and the owners run about in posh cars and the workers earn NMW.
It's a scandal really , but been allowed to happen. We are all like the proverbial frogs I think

@Marmight almost 20% of council tax revenue goes on local authority pensions:

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/council_spending_uncovered_ii_no_3_pensions_ljfyl_rqs9kanp9hwr5igfxm7oi

I was planning to leave this country if tories were elected again after the 14 years of chaos and corruption.

I said I’d give Labour a chance, but they’ve got until the budget or whatever is revealed before I make my decision and it’s not looking good so far. I’ve relocated abroad twice before , the next time I do it will be for good.

Single working people are struggling as it is and many get relatively little for what we pay in the first place. This is the wrong decision. If true, shame on them.

So true.

Single people need better lobbying forces . Are there any or many organisations championing the interests of single person households? I’m not aware of any.

Taxpayers alliance is a right wing think tank that would remove all of our state pensions and backed Liz Truss and Kwartengs mini budget.

So i wouldn't take what they say seriously.

These pensions, in the main, belong to ordinary council staff, many of whom have lost their FS schemes after Tupe transfer and the schemes frozen to new contributions.

There are certainly an awful lot of taxes so I would not be against abolishing council tax and merging it into income tax (and indeed merging income tax and NI and abolishing IHT too never mind stamp duty land tax).

Ever come across a Taxpayers Alliance member??

Of course not they dont exist.

Now I wonder how much we have to pay for the employees of private sector companies when they retire on poor or non existent pensions?

Right wing think tank or not, the data is based on FOI requests and public information. So, one is at liberty to challenge the interpretation, but the data is the data. Unless you are saying councils publish misleading data?

Does the article say how many people work in local Govt? its 2m.

The TPA will always present the argument in a way that supports their extreme views, local Govt pension may well cost a great deal but how many pensioners are there?

According to Unison - again hardly unbiased, the average local Govt pension p.a is £4000 for men and £2600 for women, based 2010 figures as your link was from 2008.

LGPS is 100% self funded too.

How much would you like to reduce that by?

Meanwhile, it’s good to see some Labour MPs have a conscience and have gone rebel on the WFA!