The budget will be 'painful'

[darada]

We're going to get absolutely bent over a barrel aren't we?

I fear the middle classes are going to be hit hardest because the poor don't pay that much (not unreasonably) and the very rich have access to accountants, lawyers and advisers and therefore will wriggle out of having to really pay.

I don't mind paying my fair share but I fear we're going to be squeezed and the money is going to be wasted a lot of it.

Anyone else feel a tad dispirited like me?

Which is why we need lots and lots of house building.

Yes. I have a friend whose son has cystic fibrosis and who needs to imbibe calorie laden drinks.

So according to The Daily Mail, who I am using as an example because if anyone is going to be negative about Labour its them, Labour will
Ban smoking in beer gardens and outside restaurants
Target people who have "a few million"
Increase fuel duty
Target IHT
Vat on school fees (already knew that one)
Limit the amount you can put in ISAs to £100K

Apparently millionaires are very worried

Interesting that we have this hole we've had since bailing out the banks in the credit crunch and austerity
The only black hole I see is the unions and paying them what they want.

People at all levels of society milk the systems. One example I see a lot is people putting more in their pensions to avoid higher taxes, totally understandable.

Intelligent mammals that we are, we will always look to get the best we can for ourselves and our families.

We shouldn't pretend it is just those on benefits though.

Rubbish. Try being a private landlord and you’ll see how hard it is. Ignorant one sided viewpoints.

My heart bleeds for you.😥

There's a big difference between:

a) organising what you do according to the rules of the tax and benefit system
-For benefit claimants, this might mean turning down extra shifts if the loss of UC makes them less worthwhile
-For higher earners, this might mean dropping a day of work/taking 6 weeks parental leave or putting £20k in your pension to stay below the £100k cliff edge

This is fine, whatever your income level. The government needs to make sure that what benefits the state also benefits the individual.

b) Milking the system illegally
-For benefit claimants, this might mean claiming PIP for a condition they don't have or working cash-in-hand in addition to claiming benefits
-For a higher earner, this might mean hiding money in offshore accounts and not putting them on their tax return

This is illegal and not fine, whatever your income level. The government needs to crack down on these crimes at all income levels. Unfortunately I don't think they do any more, so people get more and more brazen at breaking the law.

I see the thread has decended into petty arguments and vindictiveness about scraps, again. And not one person bothered to respond about the evidence-based measures that would actually improve living standards that I set out in my post yesterday at 15:20. Someone said "I want ideas!" and then when evidence-based measures that have repeatedly been proven to work to improve prosperity and public services in other countries are set out nobody can be bothered to engage with them. That says it all really and is why the UK is in such a mess: the electorate would rather engage in uninformed petty squabbles about irrelevancies and attacking each other than discuss and push for a way forward to improve things, so obviously politicians follow their lead and give them what they want.

My heart bleeds for you. Not.

Agree.

I read your previous posts and agreed entirely. There are some 'quick wins' here for increasing productivity (which in turn, leads to increased ££ in the public purse). Cliff edges are a real problem - I'm an example of that. Reducing hours, taking unpaid leave, salary sacrificing to pension etc. in attempts to avoid 90% marginal tax rate that come with losing personal allowance, losing childcare hours, losing tax-free childcare.

If it wasn't for it all hitting at once and meaning I'm almost no better off at all, I'd simply just pay tax as usual. It's an own goal for the government as they could have taken 40-45% tax on that earnings, but due to cliff edges I do all the above which means government get £0 of it. Bonkers.

For those saying Scandinavia has much better services etc I’ve just put a £40,000 salary through a Norwegian tax/NI calculator compared with ours. You’d be paying an extra £1500 per year over there. Given there are far more tax payers at 40000 than 100000 it could raise a huge tax revenue, but I there would be riots on the streets here if that happened.

For the far fewer earning £100,000 the tax take in the uk is about £500 less than Norway (similar to Norway for those living in Scotland) Because there are fewer of these people, raising taxes to Scandi rates won’t generate as much.

Can you see why higher earners here might be a bit upset at being asked to pay even more for crappy services?
You can understand they might consider moving abroad.

Meanwhile some of us in the private sector have had 2% pay rise 2 years ago and 0% pay rise last year . At least that’s the case in our house. It’s a bit galling then to see huge pay rises in the face of huge waste within the public sector.

Edited to add- my salary is mid 50ks for a professional degree job I’ve been doing for 30years

That must be unusual private sector pay has hardly dropped below 5% a year for the last 3 years. Any huge pay rises are more than likely in face a decade of pay erosion from successive governments.

I saw that the Fabian Society was promoting various tax initiatives including the scrapping of the tax-free lump sum from a pension…..

…Apart from for public sector workers who would be exempt !!!!!!!!!!

Context is everything https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-what-has-happened-to-nhs-staff-pay-since-2010

Well said

Absolutely.

Context is everything.
What that graph doesn’t tell you is the massive pension contributions the NHS pays to its staff, while many of us in the private sector have an employer contribution of 3%
I would love to have my employer pay 23% of my salary into my pension every year!!
Can you see the difference??

And with your employer's 23% payment, purchase an annuity that will guarantee to pay you 50% of your career average salary, regardless of what the stock market does.

Thank you @TerroristToddler . It is good to see there are at least some rational people around.

I think a society should also be judged by policies which kick those with modest savings and pensions in the teeth.

Money might be raised right now by hammering savings and pensions, but of course this golden goose will immediately stop laying eggs once people realise there’s little point in putting money by.

But of course Labour might be gone then, and no party cares what the future has to deal with.

That's exactly the problem: no long-term planning and cross-party consensus on issues that can only be addressed by long-term, consistent policy i.e. pensions, the NHS, education, water and energy and food security.

And then even when we have a Chancellor who is an economist it appears she plans to wilfully ignore all of the evidence demonstrating the point you raise: that if you remove sufficient economic incentive for people to work full time/ overtime/ take on more demanding roles/ invest/ save for retirement then obviously they won't.

We're pensioners so have lost the heating allowance in Wales. All prescriptions in Wales are free anyway. They'll hit us with council tax. Could means test care in the community so you get nothing towards it if your income is sufficient to charge or part charge you.

Our council tax goes up 10% yearly now. Our 3 bedroom bungalow was £3600 this year. Energy rise is a given, ditto petrol and diesel.

I think they'll hit tax free lump sum on pensions.

Re landlords rent smart Wales initiative got rid of a lot of landlords who couldn't cope with the training courses and additional legislation. So we may see a lot of properties come on the market in England.

Wow! Labour were very proud to share that Wales is their blueprint

Council tax is my worry. I live in a 4-bedroomed 80s box, but because my house is in the south east, it’s worth stupidish money (which we paid - didn’t buy when houses were tuppunce ha’penny). Who can afford to pay £5,6,7 even 10k a year council tax? “Sell then” some would say. Well, who would buy? And how would four of us squeeze into a studio flat? “Move to Rotherham!” But our jobs are in London…. And so on and so on.