Anyone doing FIRE? How's it going?

[BigTittyLife]

I'm aiming for a fat FIRE at 48. We're 38.
We're hoping to have a £1m pot by that age spread across different investments - some accessible at 48, others tied up until later on. On top of those investments, we have a house worth about £340K which we've paid off. We also have shares in a company which may or may not sell for a decent price at some point.

I wouldn't say we're particularly frugal and we certainly don't go to the extents of some FIRE people. I guess our biggest savings compared to others are that we don't go on holiday at the moment because of our elderly dog, and that we don't have housing costs because we live in a modest house that we've fully paid off.

We're currently putting away about 79% of our income without trying too hard.

We're invested mostly in shares-based retirement tracker funds. We're dabbling in higher risk investments but only amounts that we can afford to lose. We have private pension pots but we don't put a huge amount into those. We both have decent-ish workplace pensions which will give an income of some size at some point.

Is anyone else doing FIRE? I'm on some FIRE forums but they're quite US-dominated and can be a bit weird. I'm wondering if any MNers are FIRE-ing?

Absolutely- contribute generously knowing you are saving money on a restaurant!

Comparitors are really important. Do I want to go to restaurant x once a month, or go to spoons for breakfast every Saturday.
Or do I want to have an indulgent breakfast at home- salmon, bagels eggs and posh bagged salad- instead of going to spoons.

Make active choices about the little things, and enjoy the choices you make.

You need to be strong minded to stand up to your other half when there are differences of opinion. That way you should rein in each other’s excess miserliness or spendiness.

But what are you going to do if you retire at 48. I got my (bank) pension at 60 but i'm still working two days a week.
My friends motto is 'the time is always now'. Life, for me is to be enjoyed while you're still fit and healthy enough to do everything when you want to.
A dear friend dropped dead at 55 a few weeks ago. They still don't know the cause. You don't know what's coming at you.

@beguilingeyes But what are you going to do if you retire at 48

Anything I please - that's the beauty of it 😍

The idea that if you've got nothing to do at any given point, you should just work even though you don't need the money really baffles me.
There are a thousand things I could fill my days with in retirement, being an employee isn't one of them.

I agree being an employee is completely overrated - I stopped at 36! I’ve been a wfh self-employed consultant, mostly full-time, ever since - and THAT’S why I’m still working at 62, I just love being able to say ‘no’, not having a boss and not having direct reports

Re doing it today, it’s about saving when they are teens, rather than spending what they have as soon as they have it. The money saved early masses quickly. Use all the various schemes for kids.

But where are teens getting the money from? Jobs or parents?

Avoiding building debt as students, don’t move out for the sake of moving out. Don’t pay rent if you don’t have to, and don’t waste the excess money you have when you work but don’t rent!

But not everyone can live with parents rent free. People have do move for all sorts of reasons and of course uni is very expensive.

Don't have kids until you can afford them- and so on.

Look at birth rates, people aren’t having them!

Honestly I find the above a little disingenuous as so much if it relies on your parents which of course you have no control over. I was able to live at home for cheap rent and also had cash help from parents so I’m on the London ladder but I would never argue that I’m in my position because of hard work. I did work hard and save but without help it wouldn’t have made a jot of difference.

to me it's pretty obvious that two high earners without children (me and DP) would be retiring early but people get completely confused about it could ever possibly happen

Thats odd because as you say that’s logically the sector of society that can do it!

I'm not sure of the returns on property, it's not something I'd ever invest in

I don’t think property investment is what it was personally and would chose s&s over it.

But what are you going to do if you retire at 48. [...]Life, for me is to be enjoyed while you're still fit and healthy enough to do everything when you want to.

The first part of this is a common question, and one that always baffles me. In conjunction with the second part it's even more confusing. Do you not see the contradiction?

What I'm going to do is enjoy life while I'm still fit and healthy enough to do everything I want to.

I always wonder whether people who ask this question have any identity or interests outside work. If they do, why is it so ha**rd to imagine a life that is full of things other than paid employment?

@BigTittyLife it does make me laugh when people say ‘but what will you do with your time’. Most people complain in their everyday lives that they don’t have enough time to do everything, once ‘retired’ you have time to do everything you want!
It’s obviously different for everyone but personally I don’t miss work (although I may have done if I had enjoyed my job at all). I’m not easily bored and am happy to just relax, but I have a huge list of things to do should I get bored.
This year my focus is on improving my physical health - I go to the gym regularly, walk a lot with my dog, tinker about in the garden and try new recipes. I read a lot and have helped out at some local charities. And I have quite a few friends who work part-time so often meet friends for a walk or lunch. I’m planning on doing some courses to learn new skills and, when my husband leaves his job, we’ll travel some more.

I know a couple who did this. Theyre now 70, and while they don't have to worry about money and enjoy holidays they're always complaining and making up illnesses and seem a bit lost. No one really wants to spend time with them. They are in good health but like to act 90. I think that's just them though!

I think PP is referring to the original motive of FIRE. Extreme frugality to retire early. And then small withdrawals when retired, to avoid reducing your capital.

Of course, nobody will ask you 'why don't you work' if you're a multimillionaire, it's obvious, but most ordinary people have other tradeoffs.

Personally I like earning money. I like spending it. I like the detail of my job just not the people and politics. I'd rather work for a long time -but on my own terms with long breaks in between. What I wouldn't do is scrimp and save for a future that might never come, even in my early 30's I've seen far too many die young.

That's just It I guess. We all went different things.

Also @Cantabulous your job sounds like heaven! That's what I'm aiming for

@fireeeeee Absolutely.

For me, the intention is to live well today without wasting money, save as much as possible, invest savings wisely, flounce as early as possible, and never work a day in my life from that point on 😅

I think what some people don’t get is that you can still work if you choose, you’re just not reliant on it for an income. I am much more focussed on the FI than the RE. The point is that you have the financial security that gives you the freedom to make that decision.
I felt shattered in my mid-40’s, slogging my guts out for a job I didn’t enjoy. I couldn’t imagine another 20+ years of that. Now I haven’t been working for a couple of years. I’m enjoying it now but won’t say that I’ll never work again - who knows what might happen. But if I do work and don’t like it, I have the freedom to walk away if I want. I can not overstate how much this feeling of freedom means to me - I’m no longer in a rut and feel like anything could happen!

Yes, same here, and I've only been working just over a decade. cannot imagine doing it for 4x that amount - at the same pace however I do spend a lot of time at work!

I have been looking at ways to build on my experience to bring in income, short-term contracts are one but there's also writing, teaching, consulting that I can pick up.

BTW I've also seen volunteering mentioned on this thread but my most recent experiences have put me off. So many places are replacing paid staff with volunteers and treating them even worse to boot. Having targets, training sessions (beyond the minimum necessary) , demanding a commitment 'above and beyond'. If I wanted to be beholden to someone else might as well have stayed in work and gotten paid.

Yes, it's writing and teaching and marking for my profession's qualifications that have allowed me to work but not work IYSWIM for all these years. Of course, I have had no holiday or sickness allowances, no employer contributions to pensions etc (I got maternity benefits x 3 then left my job all those years ago, it wasn't planned but I was very lucky). So I have more FI than many but not (until quite recently, and I'm 62) any security at all. But then I reckon most jobs aren't particularly secure anyway, and at least I don't have to answer to anyone but myself and my (lovely, usually) clients.

And I agree with you about volunteering. You get treated like shit if you're not being paid, either as an employee or as a consultant. If you don't put a value on your time and efforts, why would anyone else?

Maybe- not everyone will be able to do everything- but our experience is that very few do any of it.

My kids were left £5000 when my aunt died. That’s all the inheritance they’ve had. Their cousins all bought cars, as they were a bit older.

They had modest birthday presents in comparison with their mates, but would often be given £50, which they saved rather than spent.

One of them does side gigs- various little extra jobs that earn money- and also has a high level qualification so he’ll always earn well. But he chose his course so he could get a well paid job, and chose a uni that allowed him to do paid internship as part of the course. He’s doing particularly well in comparison with his brother, and will undoubtedly manage FIRE.

They had jobs at Uni and at Christmas holidays.

They do get to live with us rent free at the moment, Both having moved out for uni/starting work, and eventually moved back again.

Fire is about always earning as much as you can, always spending less than you have. Invest what you save.

I know they are unusual. I know they are fortunate to have parents who don’t need to charge them rent- though we would if they were squandering their money.

I’m not saying everyone can, but more can than think they can.

Fire is about always earning as much as you can, always spending less than you have. Invest what you save.

This sounds like my youngest DS
who has just turned 24. He’s already saved over 55k and has ISAs and LISAs, he pays extra in his pension, has joined a share scheme at work and has set up a little business he does in his spare time. He still goes out with friends and has a couple of holidays each year but he’s also very sensible with money.

Interesting read this thread. I'm 40. We're mortgage free, 3 kids, 160k in cash isa's and I've sbout 235k in my work place pension. So feel like we're doing pretty well. Single income family so mum raises the kids and we avoid nursery fees.

I invest heavily into my pension, close to the 60k annual limit now we are mortgage free. Felt that was better than more in the ISAs, trying to get to £1m by 50 and look at retirement then....

I've been too nervous to move my cash ISAs to stock ones. I have no clue on stocks so leave that to the work pension.

UFPLS sounds interesting- anyone recommend this? Is where you don't take a lump sum but pay less tax per month on the draw down?

I invest heavily into my pension, close to the 60k annual limit now we are mortgage free. Felt that was better than more in the ISAs, trying to get to £1m by 50 and look at retirement then....

Remember that (unless you are in a very limited, and shrinking, number of specific occupations) you won't be able to access your pension until at least 57 - and the limit may rise again in the next decade. So you'll need enough in ISAs or other vehicles to bridge the gap.

UFPLS sounds interesting- anyone recommend this? Is where you don't take a lump sum but pay less tax per month on the draw down

A UFPLS is a lump sum where you are taking advantage of your 25% tax free cash and the rest is taxable as income. The thing to watch with this is that it will trigger the money purchase annual allowance (MPAA) which will give you a much lower tax free pension saving allowance in future. So you should only really consider this if you’re not going to be looking to build up much pension afterwards.

In drawdown, you can take the 25% tax free cash and as long as you don’t take any further income from that fund as drawdown, this doesn’t trigger the MPAA. If you read upon articles on the MPAA these consider scenarios where one might be better than the other. There are some small pot rules as well where there are exemptions.

Financial Independence retire early

Not quite in the same financial position (still have a mortgage) but I do something similar and invest heavily in my pension rather than overpay mortgage or S&S ISA. From next year I'll start stashing money in a Cash ISA as well for a second 'pot'. I'll leave the investing element to the pension.

Although I'm fascinated by the FIRE movement, the reality with kids (and school fees on the horizon) is that we won't retire early. But I do like to save what I can.

I'm FI but not yet RE. I'm 56 this year and had a go at RE back in 2019, but got utterly bored. Currently on a 3 month career break putting into practice what I learned from first attempt at retirement. It's going better but still think I will opt for reducing hours as opposed to full stop when the time comes.

I haven't followed fire but having read the principles have adapted it to meet my needs in the last 10 years.

I am ready to be financially independent and retire at 50.

I think it's useful to make you think about what is important financially. For me I was sick of reading you needed millions saved to retire at the age my parent was diagnosed with a terminal illness who never lived to retire. It made me realise that a lot of financial advice was not relevant to me. I have now taken the general principles of FIRE and invested with the help of an IFA that I can retire early when hopefully I still have my health.

This is an interesting thread. I'm no-where near as on-target as some of you; I'm 41, earn only 34,600 per annum, have two kids aged 6 and 10 and have 15 years to go on the house mortgage. I have 66K stashed in a high interest account and my interest income currently approximates £250 per month.

I don't think I would be able to retire before 55 but even so, I think everybody should read up on the FIRE principles and try and save as much as they can in preparation for a younger, healthier retirement age. I hope at 55, I can retire as by then I'll have a lot more in the bank and my interest will be paying me approx £850 a month. I could draw my pension at this stage, which won't be much - less in fact than the interest. But perhaps enough to cover my bills, and food and about £500 per month earmarked for leisure. I certainly don't want to work a day beyond 55 if I can help it.

I'm not sure what else I could do to grow my wealth - I'm probably not earning enough. The only thing I could think to do with my savings is put them in a high interest account.