75 year old, no savings, pension or housing

[BreezyPanda]

Hi everyone,r

My dad moved abroad a long time ago for work. He ended up moving there permanently and starting his company. His company went bankrupt and he spent all his savings.

He moved in with my mum (his ex wife) but the situation didn't suit them anymore so he moved out. He's back in the UK now, where I am, but he doesn't have any permanent housing and no money.

Is there any solution? He has no pension.

Thank you

You need 10 years of NI contributions to qualify for the state pension. If he left the UK in his 30's it's very likely he would qualify. If he qualifies he could receive a lump sum to cover the time from when he could have claimed to now. An NI number is allocated at birth in the UK but only sent out just before 16th birthday so he will have one, you just need to find out what it is.

This is a big if but if he qualifies for a state pension having not yet claimed it means it's a deferred. If he reached state pension age before 6th April 2016 he can take that as a lump sum or additional monthly payment. If he opts for the lump sum then look carefully at the tax situation. If he doesn't currently have an income his marginal rate is 0 so he could qualify to have the lump sum paid out with no tax implications. 10 years of back payments + interest at something like 5% a year can really add up so I can't stress enough how important it is to get the right advice.

If he doesn't have enough contributions to qualify it could still be worth finding out if it's still possible to pay voluntary contributions. It's currently possible( until April 25) to back pay to April 2006 - if he worked abroad the contributions under Class 2 are less than £200 a year, if he wasn't working or doesn't qualify Class 3 is about £850 per year. It doesn't take too long to recoup that money once getting a pension so if anyone can help with that in the short term it's worth looking into.

This is what I was thinking! Seems both irresponsible and a user. I don't wish homelessness or anything on him, OP, but the best advice is probably to help him 'use' public funds to get himself sorted, then put some distance between you.

Local authorities and housing associations tend to require a strong connection to the area (this is why I'm living in my mother's rural backwater; I couldn't go back to London). He will probably have to stay in your vicinity. But it sounds as though he'd take whatever he can extract from you, so please stay cautious.

was there a financial settlement at the time of divorce- if not he may be right !

1. How old was he when he left the UK and what work was he doing before he left? He must have an NI number if he was in the UK when he was 16?
2. What country was he in? Do they not have a reciprocal pension agreement?
3. How could he have withdrawn his entire state pension in bulk in the country he was living in? How does that work?

The first step is to find out what his NI number is. He must have one.
Then you need to find out what the pension arrangements are in the country he was self-employed in. Unless he was working cash in hand he must have been contributing to some kind of state pension.

https://www.myerson.co.uk/news-insights-and-events/divorce-without-sorting-out-finances#:~:text=Whilst%20it%20is%20possible%20to,party%20from%20claiming%20financial%20provision.

@dscisaknob, he took a pension from the other country as a lump sum and spent it.

I think a cashier job (sitting down) at a supermarket would be fine and a room as a lodger would be a good starting point for him. The company alone would be ideal. Then he needs to call citizens advice and ask for advice.

Oh stop it. I hope I’m not working at 75 - shop work is bloody exhausting, even if you’re decades younger, and not as easy as everyone seems to think.

At the end of the day there will be a load of working people currently paying for missing NI years to make sure they get their state pensions. We're all mugs as people who've never paid in still get the money in some form. I'm sorry OP that you're in this situation but we really shouldn't be paying for someone who's cashed in his pension and spent it all and not paid any tax or nI for 40 off years. But we will be and I expect we'll see more of this in years to come. I have a friend who cashed in her pension and spent it on designer handbags and clothes and 5 star hotels in Dubai. She's now getting pension credit.... it's crazy.

I hope you manage to get things sorted for him though. You must be very worried.

There are very few jobs like this now. Usually you have to work putting stock out, helping on the shop floor, and cashier as needed.

I agree, but that's why I paid both my full NI and a private pension.

There are many people who say 'I'm never going to stop working', hopefully they are the same people who haven't saved or contributed to a pension and are also blessed with decent health.

@Byronada I agree, but he will get the bare minimum and will be last in the queue for housing.

OP you asked what people in this situation are expected to do? They are expected to rent rooms or flats privately.

BreezyPanda · Today 17:27

He has no idea. He wanted to stay with my mum and then sell the house and take a portion of the money from the sale to become independent. But the house was bought with my mum's money, after the divorce, and is in solely her name, so I'm not sure why he thought she'd agree to that.

I was feting sympathetic towards him until I read that !
Frankly he sounds like a selfish, entitled prat !

Yes, he seems a bit cheeky. However, at least he tried with his business. He is a British citizen and should be helped here.

I hope you get this sorted OP it must be so stressful for you.

Fucks sake.

Sorry you're dealing with him op.

I agree that he is extremely likely to have enough NI credits for some pension. My mother was in her mid 20s when she left the UK, and was eventually able to collect the information she needed to demonstrate that she had enough entitlements to be able to claim a (very) small UK pension. If I remember correctly, the enhancements from a delayed claim contributed to getting her over the line, which might have been 10 years' NI contributions. Going down a google rabbit hole, it turns out your father is in an agegroup that will get at least some pension even if he only has a single qualifying year of NI.

In terms of having an NI number, nowadays they are allocated at birth, I think it used to be that they were issued at 16 or whenever, either way your dad will have one. The posters who are saying "if you're a UK citizen you'll have an NI number" aren't 100% correct - if you obtained your citizenship by descent and were registered overseas then no, you have to apply in the UK for an NI number if you come here to work. I found that an interesting process, they interview you to record enough life-story information to try to prevent impersonation. My sister, in London, found it an exasperating process, initially impossible as bureaucrats tried to tell her application was fraudulent, she couldn't possibly not have one etc. She gave up at first. (We were born in Australia, registered as citizens when the rules changed in the 80s, moved to the UK in our 20s)

Call centre work and anything office based. You are not washed up at 75 and most people will regularly be working until that age or beyond. So finding work that suits your age/ability is okay, I know lots of older people that work and it keeps them fit, mentally alert and a younger outlook.

He needs a kind landlady in a cosy room and op needs to look into that asap

@Meetingofminds most people are not working at 75, but most people who are are doing the jobs they have done for a while. If his phone manner is good he could probably get call centre work. But unless he was doing office work recently, he may not have the skills and experience. No one takes on 75 year olds to train them up.

@Meetingofminds A kind landlady in a cosy room?? No one wants to rent a room to someone they have to look after. And he will have zero tenancy rights. He may very well find a room to rent, but your picture sounds like a fantasy novel.

Op hasn’t suggested he needs care! He can rent a room just like everyone else. So much ageism on this thread! I know many pp working in mid seventies. Not manual work obviously but lots of softer industries that do not discriminate!

@@Meetingofminds then why does the landlady need to be kind? If he is a perfectly capable adult he can rent a room like any other adult.
Personally I would suggest the fact that OP is having to make enquiries about his entitlements rather than him sorting it out himself, suggests he does need some help.

Well, he's hardly likely to say 'I plan to sponge off any relative who will put up with it'.

No because her income didn’t matter as my cousin was guaranteeing the rent.

To those saying he shouldn't get anything, because he's spunked all his money up the wall; whilst i don't disagree that it isn't fair - what do you suggest happens to him? What if he'd left at 18yo and not paid a penny in?

@arethereanyleftatall obviously he has to get income and housing. He cant be left to starve.