How do people afford to live in London?

[galwithkids]

What it says in the title really..
We live in a 2 bed flat with our 2 DCs (4m 3m) in London zone 3. I love our area, I love London and I don’t want to move away. However I keep wondering if everyone around me is making more money that us to be able to live comfortably? Both me and DH work full time in demanding jobs and we bring home approx £9000 net. Our monthly outgoings are £7300. I have tried everything to bring this number down but I am not able to. This is just family basic living expenses, no extras, no commute or car costs, personal
phone or subscriptions not included. I have worked SO hard to bring myself to a point of earning that much, and yet every month I am left without any spare money, I never spend any money for myself, all my clothes are from Primark or H&M, the kids clothes and toys are all second hand, we don’t order take out, the weekends are usually free activities in the park or museums, I don’t save any because there isn’t any left. I feel like I have worked so hard for so long to bring myself to a decent salary level and yet I am not living the life that should come with it. I don’t want extravagant expenses, I don’t mind shopping at Primark. But I would like to have some
savings for the kids’ future, and I have nothing because money is never enough. What am I doing wrong?

It’s lifestyle creep. I get it - hence my user name. Those that “feel sorry for her kids” honestly jog on. We don’t need more bashing of working women.

As others have said OP, it’s temporary. Interest rates will drop, childcare costs will only go down (unless you have more children), but they won’t magically disappear when the children go to school. Wrap around care and holiday clubs aren’t free, but it will be cheaper than full time childcare and will come down more when kids are say 11-12.

We have a similar household income. I am not offended, just baffled that op can't understand that her level of childcare and cleaning are luxuries and choices. And I say that as someone who has a cleaner 4 hours and week and pays a fortune for my children's hobbies, I am not daft, I know where my money goes! Tone deaf to not be able to recognise that.

DH doesn’t do any cleaning and won’t do (story for another thread). Also who would look after the kids while we clean? They would want to join in and make us take twice as long, which is nice but not when I need to get something done. Also I don’t want to spend my limited tjme off cleaning, and lastly my kids are high energy so the weekends we are pretty much out of the house all day to get them tired

To be honest we just had to remortgage and that’s what’s thrown my budget off. Our mortgage went up by £700

Universal credit

It’s temporary. The kids will grow up and you’ll be rolling in it again. Hang in there!

And it's fine to make those choices , but you need to accept they are choices. I felt the same. I didn't want to clean at weekends so a cleaner was what I prioritised over expensive clothes. If your DH won't pull his finger out you could alternatively suggest he pays for the cleaner out of his own pocket. DH magically discovered the ability to clean regularly when I suggested the alternative was that he paid for the cleaner to do more hours

Also who would look after the kids while we clean?

This is parenthood. Most people manage somehow. I'd clean when kids were in bed and had low standards.

Surely if your paying that much in childcare/cleaning you would just hire somebody indipendant who can clean/cook/look after the kids for under £4200 a month

I would keep the nanny but cut the nursery to 2/3 days a week.
Get the nanny to supervise the children tidying up and to sort out the kitchen after they eat. Children in school and nursery who have a full time nanny shouldn’t leave the flat in a state.
Cut the cleaner to 3 hours a fortnight. 5 hours a week is ages to clean a 2 bed.
You are spending about £300 a month more on food than I do for 5 adults. I don’t have time to shop for bargains either, I just eat cheaper food.
You will have 2 in primary soon (sept 25?) and childcare will be significantly cheaper. As you are young enough to have 2 small dc and a full on job I guess you can expect some future salary increases and also can potentially remortgage with a longer term and lower monthly payments. You will be fine. You are fine now, you are still spending less than you earn despite, frankly, paying for stuff that any normal person would see as an indulgence. You are better than fine. You are actually rich.

Also who would look after the kids while we clean?

Well, you don’t both clean at the same time. And unless you are very anti screens, they will soon be much more interested in iPad, TV or computer games than “helping mummy”. Age 3 and 4 is quite high-maintenance, it’s true, but that won’t last for much longer.

Bloody hell, how dirty does it get that your flat needs deep cleaning once a week??? Considering you and your DH aren't there a lot of the time? A two-bed flat should take a couple of hours. I can clean our 3-bed house (Victorian, high ceilings etc) top to bottom in 3.5.

You are not doing anything wrong. I am from London. Family from London. I was working overseas and when I moved back assumed I would live back in London, working for the NHS. Took one look at the London Weighting and salaries and had to let go of that idea. I love London, I miss it, it was my home, but I cannot afford it. I dont know how anyone does without inherited wealth, social housing or very very good luck.

So just explain these things to her in a way that's helpful - being baffled and calling someone tone deaf is a waste of time and gives the thread a nasty vibe

This thread is bonkers! Who has 2 kids in a 2 bed flat that's costs over £2k per month. Pay for a nursery, a nanny and cleaner. Work crazy hrs, barely sees the kids and then complains. Come on! Money isn't everything, time with your children in better housing is more important.

We think the flat is an investment so we don’t want to move. We have considered renting it out and moving outside of London but the income taxes and all expenses that come witn this doesn’t make it worth it

I have some very easy ways for you to feel rich.

1. move to the suburbs on a decent rail line into your work and get a big house with a 30-45min commute.

2. drop your cleaner to 2 hours a week. We have a cleaner who does this and the house is constantly spotless – she's taking you for a ride if she's getting you to pay 5 hours work for a tiny 2 bed flat. My cleaner sometimes runs out of things to do in our house after two hours and starts organising my drawers (which I love! Because I am so messy)

3. Get a childminder to do wraparound care instead of a nanny. "Home from home experience" for the hours you need and waaay cheaper

You have so many options!

The most obvious thing to cut without “affecting your sanity” is for your youngest not to go to nursery. If you have a nanny who you are paying anyway, why does your youngest need to go to nursery as well?

Two small children in nursery @ £95 / day each child, it's the going rate in inner London. Times that by 20 days = £3800.

I think it enriches his knowledge, the nanny isnt an educator yes she can keep him occupied but he loves going to school, he was also jealous of his big brother when he started reception

Also OP I live in London and am on similar wage together with my DP (10k take home a month). If you earn anything over the average wage you're always gonna have options. To me it seems like you're wasting quite a bit of money. Me and DP save over 2k a month – so we spend less than you and have DC

Sorry but do you have some kind of anxiety over cleanliness?
Nothing needs that much cleaning.
Kids want to help - give them a duster to wave around or some socks to sort while you wizz the hoover round.
Don't bother with ironing unless it's work shirts. Which even if that's one a day for both you and your husband (so 10 shirts) that will take about half an hour once a week.
You don't need a cleaner.
You don't need nursery and a nanny. You only "need" nursery before the age of 3 (when it becomes funded and is more about education) if you need it for childcare. You have a nanny - she's your childcare. You don't need to pay for nursery too.

Fair enough. Cut your nanny’s hours then.

you’ll say she’ll leave.

thats fine, let her.

Find someone who fits the pattern you need now and you’ll save £££ a month.

It’s pretty obvious that you can trim quite a bit from your outgoings by cutting out nursery and reducing the hours your cleaner does, but it’s also worth asking yourself if your current jobs are worth putting yourself under this much pressure, and by that I mean is your earning potential worth the investment or would be be better off in different jobs that don’t need you to spend as much to facilitate being able to do them.

How old is your nursery-age child?