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Original poster

Do you believe in eugenics - or is Mumsnet being maligned?

27 replies

Willshome · 14/12/2023 11:33

Social media is awash with screen grabs of people on Mumsnet agreeing with the proposition that "we" shouldn't waste money on education of children with special needs because "they" will never earn enough to justify the outlay of "our" money that could be better spenr.

This is the classic eugenics argument of "useless eaters" employed by the Nazis. Who came for children with disabilities long before they started murdering socialists, Jews and Gypsies.

Do you think the targeting of education for those with special educational needs is disgusting and deplorable? Or are you happy to follow that road wherever it leads?

OP posts:
vodkaredbullgirl · 14/12/2023 11:35

yikes

Strugglingtodomybest · 14/12/2023 11:37

Do you think the targeting of education for those with special educational needs is disgusting and deplorable?

Yes

JoyeuxNarwhal · 14/12/2023 11:42

I haven't seen this at all, but if I did I'd report because it's abhorrent.

Sarah2891 · 14/12/2023 11:44

Vile. Anyone who agrees with those views should be ashamed of themselves.

DuvetCovers · 14/12/2023 11:44

To give some context to OP's post, this is the thread in question https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4962234-sensationalist-reporting-whipping-up-resentment-towards-education-bills-for-complex-sen-placements?page=1

The vast majority of people fully support funding for education for children with SEN. Thankfully the posts which ended up on Twitter were deleted.

I'd be really surprised if any more than a handful of people (whether on MN or elsewhere) held those views- it's certainly not a "Mumsnet position" as it's being made out to be on Twitter. Anyone can come on here and post anything.

Sensationalist reporting - whipping up resentment towards education bills for complex SEN placements | Mumsnet

AIBU to say that the purpose of articles such as this is to foster resentment towards disabled children/young people? Clearly I'm naive but I'm surpri...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4962234-sensationalist-reporting-whipping-up-resentment-towards-education-bills-for-complex-sen-placements?page=1

Lorelaigilmore88 · 14/12/2023 11:55

This seems to have come from the original article which quotes one council who spent 2.5 million on a single special needs child. It would be interesting to see how that figure is broken down.
But if its true then that is far too much. You can't conflate the two tho and say that saying there needs to be a limit in how much councils can spend is the same as agreeing with eugenics.

anythinginapinch · 14/12/2023 11:57

I do think we need to talk about how limited funds are spent on health and social care. I don't know the answer and I have changeable views but I see a huge problem and moral tensions that we should look at

PuttingDownRoots · 14/12/2023 11:59

It is possible to post something disgusting on a forum that doesn't pre screen posts, screenshot it and post it on twitter to portray that forum in a bad light. (Where in reality it is quickly deleted for breaking guidelines)

LushFloral · 14/12/2023 12:00

That makes me feel physically sick. Picking on disabled kids, horrendous.

bookworm14 · 14/12/2023 12:01

For God’s sake. It was one post on one single thread, which was immediately harshly criticised by other posters and then deleted. It doesn’t somehow represent the general viewpoint of Mumsnet , a site with tens of thousands of daily users.

Also, those people using fucking Twitter to attack mumsnet as being full of right wing eugenicists need to look up the definition of hypocrisy.

IncompleteSenten · 14/12/2023 12:01

I would hope that anyone reading such screenshots would not be so stupid as to blindly believe selective retelling and would actually go to the source to get the full picture instead of the childish and tedious omg someone told me that someone told them that they saw a screenshot of something on one site that was being discussed somewhere else and this is what it said ...

Which is invariably a complete misrepresentation of the actual discussion selected carefully and shared by someone with a clear agenda.

FrippEnos · 14/12/2023 12:11

I believe that children with SEND should be taught and have a full education, But I am also against companies that over charge because the SEND or education are in their title.

Strugglingtodomybest · 14/12/2023 14:34

it's certainly not a "Mumsnet position"

Exactly. Why do people do that, say things like "Mumsnet thinks xyz"? Like we're all one person. I've seen much worse on Twitter but it would never occur to me to say "Twitter thinks" because I'm not stupid.

randomstress · 14/12/2023 14:38

No individual poster on Mumsnet has a position on a subject that is the official Mumsnet position.

How can people post on X and not understand this?

It is hard to take anything said by anyone who thinks with this level of sophistication seriously.

Floppyelf · 14/12/2023 14:39

Well of course we should Fund SEN educational needs but there needs to be a cut off point. £2.5million for one child per year is too much if that is even a true statistic.

NotAnotherNativity · 14/12/2023 14:43

I haven’t seen the posts but as long as mumsnet delete them swiftly and ban the posters, that’s all they can do.

I’m always appalled by what mumsnet allow to stand on threads about things like autism. There are a lot of posters that post very negative and goady shit that isn’t deleted. I know parents who have stopped using mumsnet because of it which is a shame because there’s a lot of support of the ND boards.

AgnesX · 14/12/2023 14:45

Are you referring to that thread yesterday about the government cutting the budget for SEN children?

Some of the points of view were deplorable and made by people who didn't read the article properly.

Of course all children should be educated however it's like all resources some will get more than others.

notthisagaindear · 14/12/2023 14:45

Strugglingtodomybest · 14/12/2023 14:34

it's certainly not a "Mumsnet position"

Exactly. Why do people do that, say things like "Mumsnet thinks xyz"? Like we're all one person. I've seen much worse on Twitter but it would never occur to me to say "Twitter thinks" because I'm not stupid.

Its because there are people who hate Mumsnet because Mumsnet is a rare place that allows, predominantly women, to discuss any topic and where people who hold a huge range of perspectives can debate those wide differences of opinion openly.

People who hold the view that anyone whose opinions don't align to their own should be made to shut the fuck up, therefore hate Mumsnet. And therefore are resorting to this ridiculous and utterly transparent smear campaign.

AgnesX · 14/12/2023 14:46

Floppyelf · 14/12/2023 14:39

Well of course we should Fund SEN educational needs but there needs to be a cut off point. £2.5million for one child per year is too much if that is even a true statistic.

£2.5m per child per year? Did you even read the article?

FrippEnos · 14/12/2023 15:10

Floppyelf · 14/12/2023 14:39

Well of course we should Fund SEN educational needs but there needs to be a cut off point. £2.5million for one child per year is too much if that is even a true statistic.

by only putting in the total cost the article makes it a nonsense number.
It need to be broken down in to what it is paying for.
For instance it is includes teachers, if so why? all children need teachers to educate them.
If its for transport then how does it compare to the cost of the average fare for the distance incurred and why is there a difference.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 14/12/2023 15:13

Twitter is not an intellectually robust forum. MN is. That’s why they hate us.

or, that’s part of why they hate us. the fact that we seem to be a group of women who don’t care what the trolls think is probably an aggravating factor.

SpudleyLass · 14/12/2023 15:29

Floppyelf · 14/12/2023 14:39

Well of course we should Fund SEN educational needs but there needs to be a cut off point. £2.5million for one child per year is too much if that is even a true statistic.

Its not per year. Its spread out over several years and it includes residency.

That child obviously has some serious needs.

Strugglingtodomybest · 14/12/2023 16:15

Well, if we can spend, what is it now? £240 million on sending zero people to Rwanda, £2.5 million on one person's education seems like a bargain really.

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 15/12/2023 00:38

there are so many area's of health care (mental social and educational) that need a total revamp and reconsideration. although the old residential model of psychiatric facilities and work houses was poorly executed a better model of long term care needs to be considered for those who can not live independently.
currently some settings are not suitable such as social housing for seriously antisocial individuals which causes distress, children who are not having their needs met in mainstream, or the unhoused which is upsetting for everyone to witness.

BarbaraofSeville · 15/12/2023 06:20

FrippEnos · 14/12/2023 12:11

I believe that children with SEND should be taught and have a full education, But I am also against companies that over charge because the SEND or education are in their title.

If that is part of the issue (companies that over charge) then the great irony about all this being whipped up by the Tory press is that it is decades of Tory policy about privatising essential public services into profit driven businesses that directly or indirectly make them shedloads of money that drives the increased cost of said services (see also PPE contracts, PFI contracts, likely anything related to RAAC over the next few years/decades and what many of us who work in the public sector will be aware of, having to use contracted suppliers for purchases, travel etc, which means we pay inflated costs for things we could buy elsewhere much cheaper).

Plus as any regular listener to BBC More or Less will know, when broken down and rationally assessed, the number given in the headline is almost always misleading nonsense.