Help me challenge my PIP decision

[Worried1987]

I have recently received my report back from my pip assessment and it is full of outright lies. I have only been awarded 2 points ( for reading). A lot of the areas where I believe I meet the criteria they have put worried reports no difficulties with this where in the assessment I described in great detail all the difficulties I do have with that task. For preparing food they acknowledge some of difficulties that I outlined but state that as I am on maternity leave from a job which involves interacting with others I can’t have difficulty with activities of daily living and have awarded me no points for this. My job has absolutely nothing to with preparing food ( just as well as I would set fire to myself if it did).

How do I challenge this ? I know I need to do a mandatory reconsideration before I appeal. How do I explain the report is lies? I am so upset. I wouldn’t mind if they had told the truth but they have made me out to be massive liar.

There's not much point focusing on where you think they lied. You need to show where you think you should have scored points and didn't and submit medical evidence in support of the difficulties you have in relation to the descriptors. Address each descriptor where you thought you should score points. It's going to be hard going from only 2 points to getting enough for an award but not impossible.

Does that mean there is no point in doing it then? I did describe the difficulties on the form and in the interview and it was not correct to say I reported no difficulties. If I describe my difficulties and submit medical evidence are they going to dismiss it because according to the report I told the assessor I did not have these difficulties.

There were two descriptors where they did say what difficulties I had which they then said I shouldn’t get anything even though the criteria said I should.

Would it be better to apply again and hope I got an assessor who didn’t lie.

What I mean is can I say. The assessors report says I have no significant falls. I told the assessor I fell around 5 times a week. Here is some evidence of my hospital visit. Or do I have to accept what the report says I said in which case I would get nothing.

Thank you for reading and replying.

Yes, you can detail each discrepancy. Don't say the 'assessor is lying' or 'the assessor is wrong'. It is the report that is inaccurate.

Look at the points descriptors and see what you think you should have got. Then give your account of why you think you meet the criteria, and what evidence you have.

I would ask for an MR rather than starting a new application as if you get the decision overturned the money gets backdated.
Are you wanting to use the falls example in relation to not being safe to cook / Did you explain what happens when you fall, do you have no warning etc to get yourself to a safe place?

Contact your local Welfare team at the council, Citizens Advice office, or even someone like Age UK if you are over 55. Your GP may have a Citizens Advice person too. They can advise, challenge mistakes, help with an appeal etc.
Mistakes happen and having someone in your corner to advocate will help you get the right decision.

If you haven't already done this then you might find it helpful to consult this organisations seem to have a decent reputation for guiding people towards successful applications/MRs/appeals.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip

I am going to see if I can get help from citizens advice or someone like that.

The falls I thought was evidence in the mobility section. In cooking they have noted that I use aids but still don’t feel safe to cook because of my coordination difficulties and that my partner does it but still scored me zero points by they think I should be able to do it.

Neurodivesrelife2 will be able to help, on Tiktok, she makes some great videos about PIP help.

I’d defo go with an organisation that specialises in the condition you have and gas advisors who can support you in your appeal.

It may cost twenty quid donation or something but totally worth it as they know how to do things the way they need to be done to get you what you need.

The test of capability is whether you can do something 'reliably'. That means:

1. To an acceptable standard
2. Safely
3. Repeatedly
4. In a reasonable time frame

www.mypipassessment.co.uk/updates/what-are-the-reliability-criteria-that-are-used-during-the-pip-consultation/#:~:text=For%20the%20purpose%20of%20PIP,be%20acceptable%20to%20most%20people.

For cooking, a 'meal' is a simple meal made from fresh ingredients. For example, an omelette with cheese and tomatoes.

For PIP 'feeling unsafe' is not enough to score. To score under 'safety', there has to be a realistic prospect that you may come to harm by doing the activity, even with the use of aids. For example, if you said 'I get wobbly when I stand at the worktop to chop vegetables, so I might cut myself with the knife', it would be reasonable to expect that you would use a stool to make it safer. If you can lift a pan of boiling water but not carry it across the kitchen to the sink, it would be reasonable to expect you to use another pan to drain the water into, then wait for it to cool before pouring it away, so that you are only potentially spilling cold water, etc.

Safety comes into play with things like the ability to check if meat is sufficiently cooked, whether you would recognise that food has turned bad in the fridge, etc.

'Repeatedly' for cooking means being able to prepare your meals for the day. So if you can make breakfast, but the effort of doing it means that for the rest of the day you don't eat because you're so exhausted by the effort it took, then you can't 'make breakfast'.

'To an acceptable standard' - is the food edible once you've cooked it? If someone can only cook one thing at a time, so everything goes cold while the next thing is cooked, that wouldn't be 'an acceptable standard'.

'In a reasonable time frame' - it should take no more than twice the amount of time that an average person would take to make the same thing.

Have a look again at what you wrote on your form, and think about your needs. If you feel that you are genuinely at risk of harm when you cook (rather than preferring your DH to cook because you feel unsafe) you will need to explain why your aids don't make it safe enough. Then take all the other factors one by one, and explain why you should score points.

The criteria can be very strict. DD2 gets enhanced care and mobility. However, despite having a severe expressive language disorder and a severe social communication disorder (both properly diagnosed and in weekly therapy for) and Autism that affects her ability to understand and process information, she scored 0 points for 'understanding complex information' because 'complex information' means 'More than one sentence written in standard text size in their native language'.

You really do need to understand what the terms mean for each activity - each one will have a specific definition which the criteria are applied to.

Thank you. The cooking criteria is one area where I very clearly meet the criteria and I have explained the aids that I have and the time that I have come to harm through scaling myself. Which I would still do if I tried to drain things into another pan rather than the sink because it is not safe for me to lift a heavy pan of scalding water.
I can’t do anything in a reasonable timeframe if that critica is applied but I am focusing on things where I do think I can score the points. In preparing food and planning a journey the two area where I do think I am entitled they admit the difficulties I have which should score on the criteria and that these do fit with my conditions but say I should be able to do them. It doesn’t make sense.

In some areas they have just written that I report no difficulties when I reported them to the form and the assessor. The no falls thing is the most shameless of the lies.

@Worried1987 not to be picky, but you need to know that they are considering if you can cook a meal for one, so 'a heavy pan of water' wouldn't be what they are considering. If you think of 75g of pasta and enough water to cover it, that would be for one.

I'm only telling you this so you can be very specific when you challenge your decision. I'm not saying that I don't believe you struggle. Just that they won't care if you can't lift a heavy pan, because that isn't the criteria.

Thank you. If they had made their decision based on the fact the criteria that I said I can’t lift a heavy pan rather than any pan, then I would have more of an idea of how to challenge it. But they said that I do have difficulties in this area but based on the fact that I work with the public and I can open my medication packet I should be able to do the skill. That is not what the rules say can I challenge them on this at all?

I think it depends. Does the skill transfer? For example, if you said 'I can't open food packets because I can't grip the packet.', it might be relevant to say 'hold on.... She can open the medication packet so it's not much different.' If you say you can't understand complex information but then work in a role where you have to explain complex information to people, it might also be a point that is challenged.

Your best way forward is to write down why it is different - why doesn't being able to open a medication packet mean that you can manage cooking?

For example, someone might need help with getting dressed and the decision maker may say 'but they look after their grandchild and get them dressed...so'. To challenge that, the claimant might say "I can get my grandchild dressed because I strap them in their high chair and I sit on a stool so that I don't have to bend down to put their shoes on. With my own shoes, I can't bend down to put them on and I can't balance and lift my foot to raise it high enough. I can't wear slip on shoes because I need a secure fastening due to the instability in my ankles."

I think it does not transfer at all as I can open a packet of pills but not lift a pan with hot water in; which is heavy to me even though it may not be to any one else. I do not have any specific evidence relating to preparing food and they don’t accept that my sight issues affect planning and carrying out a journey so I am unlikely to get anything even though I do meet the criteria. I am not old and I have children and a job which I know makes me luckier than many people. I think they don’t believe that someone can be disabled and manage to work and have children.

Lots of people are disabled and have children and work, so that's not true.

The descriptors for planning and following a journey are:

a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12

So unless you have overwhelming psychological distress without prompting, or can't plan the route of a journey, or can't follow the route of a journey, you won't get mobility.

Having difficulty isn't enough, unfortunately. SAT NAV is only an 'aid' if it is one specifically for disabled people.

Entitlement to PIP does require you to fit your life experience into fairly narrow descriptors as PP have very eloquently explained. Yes you may find things difficult due to your health but if those difficulties don’t fit the descriptors then you won’t qualify. It is very common for them to say “because you can do X then you can do Y”- especially eg if the applicant drives where they will say driving requires dexterity, mobility, decision making skills, space perception etc. So your tasks at work will be seen as relevant in the same way.

It’s always worth requesting MR, and you should go through the decision letter line by line pointing out where you think there are discrepancies between what you said at the assessment and what they’ve written. CAB May be able to help you with this.

Definitely ask for a mandatory reconsideration and then appeal (they don't always change a decision at the mandatory reconsideration stage). I got 0 points when I first applied and then got 8 points for standard living and 4 for mobility after tribunal, which they've stuck with since,

Make sure you have enough evidence too! It does help.

These responses are very helpful. I'm just awaiting a decision on PiP and am taking it all in.

I had thought I would get on the basis of my sight. Which I don’t think was unreasonable of me because that does affect my ability to plan and follow the route of a journey and meets those criteria. Looking again at the report they have counted the accident I have had which are a combination of my sight impairment and balance issues as being towards criteria 12 where I accept I will score zero points rather than evidence of my lack of ability to carry out a journey. Maybe that is right and there is no point of appealing.

Does your visual impairment mean you need to carry a white stick? Or you need help to be able to tell if it's safe to cross the road? It's unlikely you'd get mobility points for a visual inpairment that is less disabling than those examples. (Though if your visual impairment is causing you to fall, it's arguable that you do need a white stick)

Contact Fightback4justice. They're really really good at PIP appeals and Mandatory reconsiderations

It's difficult when you say 'and meets those criteria' because unless your sight difficulties mean that you have to use a specialist aid, or causes you such distress that you need prompting to make the journey, or means that you need another person with you when you leave the house, it doesn't meet the criteria. That's the problem. Having a difficulty doesn't score you points unless it fits a descriptor. So having sight difficulties doesn't (on its own) score you any points.

Kindly if there’s only two categories under which you think you meet the criteria you are unlikely to score a total sufficient to lead to an award in any event unless you fall into the severest “level” within that descriptor