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Original poster

UC claim refused - what next?

36 replies

Helpmysis · 27/10/2023 19:05

My sister has very bravely fled a DV relationship with her 3 children.
She came to live with me initially and then we managed to sort them out a rental property which they have now all moved into.
She made a claim for UC but It’s been refused on the basis that she has capital in a property even though they make no profit from it, it’s inhabitable (was meant to be a restoration project but never got finished for various reasons), plus it would be unsafe to live with him.
What can I do to help her? I’ve read about there being a disregard if the property is listed for sale but her ex will refuse to do that.

OP posts:
ItsmeImtheproblem200 · 27/10/2023 19:07

Oh Gosh, try the CAB? Or local council, they may have emergency funds aside until this gets sorted because if she loses her house and has no money it’s just another family they’d have to rehome.

Thepúca · 27/10/2023 20:19

Can she take him to court to force the sale. I think that's what she needs to do.

Babyroobs · 27/10/2023 21:08

If it is the former maritial home then it can be disregarded for six months ( maybe longer) as long as steps are being taken to sell it. I don't know if they have any special rules for DV cases. She needs to explain on her journal and hope it can be disregarded. She will likely need to see a solicitor to force the sale. Unfortunately she then won't be likely to be eligible for UC as the equity is likely to be over 16k but at least she would have the proceeds to pay the rent..

Babyroobs · 27/10/2023 21:12

Or is it a property separate from the maritial / previous home ? Can you be more specific - is he still living in the house?

Original poster
Helpmysis · 27/10/2023 21:25

It’s the only property they own but they have never lived in it. It was going to be a renovation project so they moved in with his parents but was never finished.

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 27/10/2023 22:49

Helpmysis · 27/10/2023 21:25

It’s the only property they own but they have never lived in it. It was going to be a renovation project so they moved in with his parents but was never finished.

Ok so it's an asset and Uc would expect it to be sold asap and equity divided . It may still be able to be disregarded if she can show it is on the market.

Original poster
Helpmysis · 28/10/2023 01:27

But I don’t think he’ll let her put it up for sale, or even attempt to.

OP posts:
NoTouch · 28/10/2023 01:43

She needs to get advice on how to legally force the sale.

Wasywasydoodah · 28/10/2023 01:54

She needs to contact a domestic abuse support place. There ought to be an exemption for this kind of situation and they will know how to get it. My guess is

  1. report to police
  2. get crime number
  3. put this info on journal and resubmit uc application.
but womens aid or a local service will know more.
Wasywasydoodah · 28/10/2023 01:56

also speak to a solicitor about forcing the sale. Might be done if they’re divorcing. But that will take ages

AnitaDeepali · 28/10/2023 02:03

Speak to police as well, there may be a way through a court order to prevent him coming near her (I know it doesn't physically prevent him) so she could go live in it. If he breaks the court order I believe he can be arrested.

She can't sort this situation out herself without obtaining official help unless she has the funds to totally support herself, which isn't the case.

Bromptotoo · 28/10/2023 09:51

First thought is whether any of the disregards in Sch 10 of the UC Regs apply. If she's taking some steps to sell, perhaps getting a legal opinion on her options re the partner and a valuation of her interest as it stands that should be a start. Regulation (6) would then apply.

What is the place really worth? The issue here is not the property itself but the market value of her share. If it's uninhabitable and the co-owner is not willing to sell then that value might be very low indeed.

As a first step she needs to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration of the refusal focussed on the points above. If she's been abused/subject to DV etc by the co-owner that is also relevant.

The Universal Credit Regulations 2013

These Regulations contain provisions in relation to universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 (c.5) (“the Act”). They also include provision for a benefit cap under section 96 of the Act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/schedule/10

Original poster
Helpmysis · 28/10/2023 15:25

@Bromptotoo Thanks that’s really helpful, if she was able to get him to agree to a valuation and sent the proof to UC would that be enough to disregard the asset? Or do they actually have to put it on the market?

OP posts:
Bromptotoo · 28/10/2023 16:59

Helpmysis · 28/10/2023 15:25

@Bromptotoo Thanks that’s really helpful, if she was able to get him to agree to a valuation and sent the proof to UC would that be enough to disregard the asset? Or do they actually have to put it on the market?

I'd suggest that if she has already had advice from a solicitor about what legal steps are needed to market the place then it can be disregarded under para 6 as mentioned above.

Working out what the value really is maybe a second string to her bow. I'd expect DWP to want evidence of it, there's a form for this I think. If they disagree they can ask the government's Valuation Agency or a private valuer of their own for a second opinion.

She may even be in a position to say it's disregarded because I'm taking steps but that her share is worth diddly squat anyway....

AnitaDeepali · 28/10/2023 21:47

She doesn't need anyone's permission for a valuation.

Only need permission to list it for sale (possibly, I'm not certain you actually need permission for that, but obviously any sale agreed isn't going to go through without the other co-owners consent I should think, unless it's court ordered.).

All she needs to do is give the person doing the valuation access to the house. I wouldn't even mention it to the ex. He doesn't live there so won't be around to prevent access. She co-owns it so can give access to anyone she likes.

She needs to accept she's got to take measures to sell it. It's no good sticking her head in the sand. It's not going to be disregarded forever, only for a while to give her time to sell. The DWP rightly doesn't exist to support people with assets like spare houses they CBA to do anything with. She needs to sort this, as difficult as it may be.

Viviennemary · 28/10/2023 21:51

Does she jointly own this property with her ex partner. Are they married.

Original poster
Helpmysis · 28/10/2023 23:25

Yes they’re married and she owns a quarter, as does his mum and dad.

OP posts:
AnitaDeepali · 29/10/2023 01:05

Then if the three of them don't want it sold, one or all of them will have to buy her share. She can't walk away and just give it to them then claim benefits instead, it's deliberate deprivation of assets.

Bromptotoo · 29/10/2023 09:25

AnitaDeepali · 29/10/2023 01:05

Then if the three of them don't want it sold, one or all of them will have to buy her share. She can't walk away and just give it to them then claim benefits instead, it's deliberate deprivation of assets.

@AnitaDeepali if they're willing to buy her out that's all well and good. If they're not she cannot force them. In that case she's going to have to take steps so that the value is disregarded and/or show it's so low as to not affect UC.

Value wise the question is what would a buyer pay for 25% of a (semi derelict?) property where the other owners don't want to sell. There are auctioneers who work in that part of the market and there will likely be comparables that a valuer for OP's sister could identify as evidence.

AnitaDeepali · 29/10/2023 13:55

She will have to go to court to force them to sell. Otherwise everyone would be able to co-own whatever and claim UC stating the value should be disregarded because the other owners don't want to sell! ie people would be ripping off the system all over the place. The welfare payments are for people with no other means/insufficient means of support. She owns 25% of a property. Unless the value of her share is under £6k it's going to affect her UC claim. Unless it's under £16k then, when the disregard period is over, she won't be able to claim any UC at all. It can't be disregarded forever, only for a while to give her a chance to sell. I know she can't force the others to buy her out, I'm not stupid, but she can force sale of the property and get her 25% back that way.

Bromptotoo · 29/10/2023 14:25

@AnitaDeepali I agree she needs to do something but I'm not convinced a court would order sale in these circumstances. She can of course secure her interest by charge or whatever.

The idea that if one does it they'll all do it doesn't fly as you need to be doing something. If however there's no realistic remedy then DWP will have to disregard it. In practice I suspect the value of her share will be so low as to be below £6k

Welfare Rights Advisers see these sort of things on a regular basis. DWP make the owner jump through hoops but at the end of the day they cannot refuse benefit on the basis of an asset to which the owner has no prospect of access.

AnotherEmma · 29/10/2023 14:43

OP, heed Bromptotoo's advice.

Your sister needs to request a Mandatory Reconsideration - there are various ways to do it, but I'd send the form, keep a copy and post in recorded delivery.
https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration

She needs to argue that her share in the property should be disregarded capital because she is taking steps to sell her share. Enclose evidence of the domestic abuse, a copy of any deeds or other legal paperwork regarding the property, and a copy of a recent valuation. As PPs said, she doesn't need the permission of the other owners to get this.

Has she contacted her local Women's Aid or equivalent? If not, she should. I also advise calling the Rights of Women free family law helpline. Usually before going to court she would need to attend a MIAM but there are some exceptions for domestic abuse. Might be worth contacting a mediation provider anyway to check.

Challenge a benefit decision (mandatory reconsideration)

Challenge a benefit decision - how to ask for a mandatory reconsideration, evidence you'll need, deadlines and what happens next.

https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration

Original poster
Helpmysis · 29/10/2023 18:21

Thank you all so much, we’ve got a valuation booked tomorrow so I’m going to attend with her & call the family law advice line too.

OP posts:
Original poster
Helpmysis · 16/11/2023 10:22

Just thought I’d update-
After numerous calls to solicitors, free legal advice lines, domestic abuse charities etc. My sister has decided not to appeal.
She’s been told that it would be pointless as even if she got them to disregard the asset it would only be 10% of the value which still takes her over the £16,000 allowance.
They’ve advised her to try to mediate with her ex initially to get a monthly payment from him, if this isn’t possible she will have to start legal proceedings to divorce him.
They also said she wouldn’t be entitled to legal aid so now she’s getting into debt paying her rent/bills and looking after the kids so is struggling to understand how she’ll be able to afford to divorce him!

OP posts:
anneblythe · 16/11/2023 11:06

The advice on here is a bit misleading. UC can only take into account the value of the property if you are able to sell it. If the other person refuses to sell or there is another reason the money can't be realised they can ignore the value. Victims of domestic violence also have certain protections on Universal Credit.

I would advise your sister to call Citizens Advice Help to Claim on 0800 1448 444 and ask them to support her to appeal with the help of their Expert Advice Team.

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