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a stupid stupid mistake

68 replies

mehdismummy · 21/02/2008 15:43

can anyone tell me where i stand legally? I am a shift manager of a pub and yesterday morning i was called up by one of the shift leaders to say the safe was £20 down. After putting phone down i checked through my pockets and realised i had the money in there. It must have been where i was changing up coins.

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kid · 22/02/2008 20:24

Sounds like you have several examples to support your case. I would contact CAB to see what they advise you to do, I reckon it will end up at some sort of tribunal. Even if they give you a warning of some sort, why should they get away with it. What makes the other manager so special that they are allowed to breach their contract.

mehdismummy · 22/02/2008 20:57

nothing happened to manager because he did nothing about. He was not gonna report himself was he? I mentioned at this investigation that i thought other people had gone in the safe when they were not working and he seems to have forgotto i did not remind him. Should i use this info?

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OracleInaCoracle · 22/02/2008 21:13

hi, Im sorry you are going through such a rough time. I was a restaurant manager/duty manager pre-ds and responsible for staff disciplinaries, training, contracts etc. Im rusty but I have been in your mangers situation before.

It sounds to me like your shift leader is trying to stir things up and get you fired. and although you do have a lot going on, you have handed him the advantage. do you have any proof that your doctor wants to sign you off but your employer wont accept it? What are the tills/safe/stock like on your shifts normally? how big is the company that you work for? can you tell me which one, im still pretty good on contracts for most companies.

unfortunately (and i'm really sorry to have to say this) In your managers position I would have had no option, it would be grounds for instant dismissal. whether it is and an honest mistake or not. however you do have some ammunition. they should have sent you on a refresher course. You should take someone into the meeting with you, if only for moral support.

OracleInaCoracle · 22/02/2008 21:19

sorry if that sounded really harsh, i didnt mean it to

mehdismummy · 22/02/2008 22:03

yeah my doctor will vouch for me. I work for a big pub chain. I am gonna call acas monday. You did not sound harsh. Such a silly mistake. Just have been so exhausted mind not working properly

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dippydeedoo · 22/02/2008 23:12

mr dipps said ACAS is the best route for advice .....im so cross for u mehdismummy xxxx

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 00:38

thanks mr and mrs dippy. Why he had to take it this far i dont know. He could have kept it in house.

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mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 10:15

so stressed about this. I told them weeks ago i was stressed and tired. Think he is unfair to do this when he has done the same thing himself (but worse) should they have not suspended me? Is cod about? Is she not legally trained? On the plus side spoke to new am and she is really really lovely. She a mum herself so she understands. I wish i could have spoken to her sooner. She coming in next week so gonna tell her everything. Could not say too much on phone as people were listening so gonna tell her face to face. I am not bothered about losing job. Just worried were we will live. Flat comes with job. Dh also rents a room so we could stay with him. But have had so many problems with dh dont want to rely on him.

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LIZS · 23/02/2008 10:56

poor you . Get some advice but I don't think citing others' dubious behavour is going to help your case. Focus on the stress you are under , that it wasn't intentional (as indicated by your attempt to return it) and your remorse.

Freckle · 23/02/2008 11:02

If your manager was engaging in practices which ran contrary to company policy, it could be argued that you were merely following his example as you thought this was how things were done. If you can show that this was normal practice for him, your employers would be hard pressed to punish you for doing the same thing.

LIZS · 23/02/2008 11:07

but freckle wouldn't that suggest she had done it consciously rather than made a genuine mistake?

Freckle · 23/02/2008 11:11

I thought the mistake was forgetting to put it back, not taking it in the first place.

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 11:30

yeah i just honestly forgot i had it. Apparenty i should have left some sort of note saying i was taking it to get change. My second mistake was putting it back in to safe without being on shift. Cash control procedure changed when i was on maternity. I did tell the shift leader that i had put it back. Makes me angry that manager can sit there saying i should not be in safe off duty when he has done the same. My dh and i made a complaint against him last year because he was in the flat below us until three in morning having a party with girl that lives there. Guy who is doing my disciplinary is the one that dealt with that. Seems coincidence that last month i found a envelope in office with all our statements from that incident in it. Thought they were meant to be confidential. He also just found out i asked for transfer.

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RibenaBerry · 23/02/2008 11:52

Mehdismummy,

Not sure if Flowerybeanbag is around. She normally has lots of good advice on this stuff. I sometimes come on too. You might want to post this in employment too so that she sees it.

First things first. Have you worked there at least a year? This is going to sound incredibly harsh, but if the answer is no you have bugger all rights I'm afraid. There are some carve outs (e.g. you can still sue for discrimination and you can still sue for your notice period if you are sacked for gross misconduct and should have been dismissed on notice), but broadly you have no rights.

Hopefully you've been there more than a year. Now you need to focus on this disciplinary hearing...

In terms of the disciplinary, I actually disagree with others. I DO think that it is relevant how others have behaved. This is because a disciplinary decisions needs to be taken in an even handed way. If other people have committed the same 'offence' and no action has been taken, and you are dismissed, it might make the dismissal unfair. I agree with others who have said that I am afraid that they could decide to take a hard line and fire you, but I think it's more difficult for them to do that if they don't treat others the same way.

You need to get your own thoughts clear in your head and you need to present them as succintly (sp?) as possible. I think that your key points are:

  1. You made an innocent mistake. You put the note in your pocket to change it and forgot. You confessed as soon as you realised.
  1. You had never been trained on cash control procedure so, although you broke it, you didn't know you were doing so. Explain that you were told you would be trained when you came back from maternity leave, but you weren't. You therefore did not know that you were meant to leave a note.
  1. That you think it is unfair for you to be singled out for breaching the policy when others have, to your knowledge, done the same. Explain the incident with the manager taking the money. Say that you don't see how it's fair that you are disciplined for an honest mistake and he is not for deliberately borrowing the money (that's what happened, isn't it?).
  1. Explain your personal circumstances and the stress you are under. Explain that you believe that this may have led to you making the stupid mistake in the first place. If you want to talk about your doctor wanting to sign you off but your manager being angry, then do.
  1. IF you want to get into it, explain the worry that the manager is against you since you made a complaint about him. Beware though, if the manager is good and they want to keep him, then if you two can't work with one another, it's the junior people who are more likely to take the chop. One reason I might go into this is to strengthen your case for a transfer. Ultimately, it's a bit of a personal choice whether you raise this.

More practically, have you had a letter inviting you to the disciplinary hearing yet? It should explain the charges against you and you have the right to bring a colleague (or, if you happen to know one, a trade union rep even if your workplace is not unionised) with you to the hearing. The moral support can be useful, especially if you get upset...

Hope it goes well. Fingers crossed for you.

Freckle · 23/02/2008 12:04

Could I add that you should write down everything you want to say, all the points you want to raise as it is very easy to forget things once in the middle of the meeting. Do stress that you had been advised to take time off work due to stress but were put under pressure (by this same manager?) not to do so and you had to comply because you thought you would otherwise lose your job.

Will any of your colleagues accompany you to the meeting? You should have received a letter inviting you to the meeting and it should state in that letter that you have the right to be accompanied by a colleague or a union rep. If they have failed to send you such a letter, they are in breach of the rules governing disciplinary procedures and this would go against them should you choose to bring a case to an employment tribunal in the future.

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 12:09

thanks ribena. I am gonna contact acas on monday. Have worked for them for six years in total four in reality(year where my pub got sold and me too as going concern. Returned after year. One year off for maternity)

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Lulumama · 23/02/2008 12:11

bless you , nothing else to add, except i hope things work out

but if they are trying to screw you over, then you might be best off out of it

good luck, sweetheart

DeeRiguer · 23/02/2008 12:19

hope it works out for you
i agree its shitty situation but you have good points on your side (past record, working history, lack of refresher course etc..)
you could be better of out of it all though...your 'friend' at work is such a shit though..

deep breath take care
and you could be better off out of it all
are you looking around for other work atm?

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 12:50

oh agree. Hate job tbh. Just worried about somewhere to live. I live above my job. Although when new rule came in me and dh had to rent room each(dh works for company too.) so technically i could stay as i am his wife. They could try and make it difficult by trying to move someone else in

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mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 17:47

just read the procedure file.. It looks like every single person down there has broken cash control policy so why has he just chosen to ignore that? Surely if it is dismissal i can site discrimination?

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dippydeedoo · 23/02/2008 20:51

Maybe they will make an'example' of your case by putting u through this and offering you refresher courses so that everyone is aware if it can happen to an 'old hand' it can happen to them too,i just want it cleared up for you hun xx

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 21:32

oh i dunno dippy. It just seems unfair that every single member of the managment team has broken cash control policy but nothing done about it. At least i can use it as i am being unfairly treated. Should i let manager know i remember about his breach of cash control policy or just get the evidence i need?

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flowerybeanbag · 23/02/2008 21:58

mehdismummy just seen your thread in Employment, haven't read this properly but will come back in the morning and have a look for you.

mehdismummy · 23/02/2008 22:13

oh thats very kind thanks very much

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mehdismummy · 24/02/2008 10:38

anyone else that can help out there?

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