Need perspective- marital money

reservationfortwo · 2023-05-15T17:47:12+00:00

My dh and I have been married 5 years, together 10 years prior. He owned a house when we met and so had more money to put in to our house when we bought together. The deeds state he owns a much bigger percentage than me because I contributed less and because we weren't married we were "tenants in common". Fast forward to now...he earns a massive amount more than me. I have a very small business and am ultimately responsible for parenting and childcare if he gets called away with work. Because he earns loads more and is good with money he deals with all house finances, runs my car, buys most of the food, my phone etc. I pay half towards the monthly mortgage. I know he has lots of money but I have no access to his accounts and we run our finances separately. I realise this makes me incredibly vulnerable and I should look at changing it but not sure how or if this is even ok?

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 18:54

If you are married and have kids then everything you own is owned by you both, jointly
married people should have access to all monies brought into the marriage, and most people have a joint account that both people can access.
this is sounding like financial abuse, and I am sure there is a link somewhere that explains what the law says financial abuse is.
if you are contributing to the marriage by looking after your joint children, then this is of equal value to earning a salary.
it stops you earning, climbing the promotions and adding to your own pension.
Please say you claim Child Benefit, just for the National Insurance and thus access to state pension.
you may as a couple have to pay this back in tax, but the NI contribution to State Pension is vital

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 18:58

Thank you. Why would i claim child benefit? I wouldn't imagine I'm entitled to it? I do pay NI through my business and as such believe I'm on target for normal state pension.

OP posts:

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:01

If you earn enough to pay NI that’s great, but often women who work part time don’t, so despite the father earning a huge amount of money, the mother risks missing out on a basic state pensions

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:02

Do I need to be claiming child benefit though? Who is entitled to it? I wonder if he's claiming for it and not telling me.

OP posts:

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:02

Check by logging onto the state pension forecast website via the government gateway.

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:06

I have state pension but who claims the child benefit? I never have and now assume he does and hasn't told me - is this fair? Who should receive it?

OP posts:

JJ8765 · 15/05/2023 19:15

you should be able to ask him for transparency about finances so you can make investment etc decisions together. For a start you need a proper pension as he can clearly afford it not just state pension. If he won’t agree to a retirement investment vehicle for you then I would be considering working full time somewhere with a good pension scheme and contracting out the childcare. Get quotes for a nanny if you feel you would need to show him how much money you are saving the family. I wouldn’t say it’s abuse as you sound like you’ve been happy with this up to now and tbh it sounds like my exMIL who was well looked after financially but never had to pay any bills until FIL died. It’s old fashioned to do it like this and as people live longer and are more likely to split up then it’s wise to protect yourself and know what assets and income he has. He probably earns too much for child benefit eg he could claim it but it would then be recouped. There’s info about benefits and pensions on UK gov website. If you feel you don’t have any spare spending money or an equal say about big ticket items / holidays etc then that would be a red flag for abuse and him not giving your contribution equal value (but a court would if you divorced).

Iwrote · 15/05/2023 19:15

Of he earns over 60k there'll be no child benefit to claim.

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:15

If he earns more than 50k it is tapered up to 60k when you don’t get any actual money but the parent who claims it gets the NI credits, and the high earning parent pays it back via a tax return

your financial arrangements sound like two flat mates who happen to have a child rather than a team who share an approach to life.
who pays for holidays, new cars, a new roof or new boiler ?
who pays for the clothes, activities, toys, days out and so on for your kids

who has the savings ? Who makes the financial decisions about investments? Are you saving for uni for your kids ?

you should have complete transparency and make these decisions together

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:19

Thank you, he's well over the threshold for child benefit then.

I pay for my kids clothes, my own clothes, kids activities and clubs, kids birthday parties (invites), have my own spending money from my own job. I just pay towards the mortgage but he buys most other things....

OP posts:

averythinline · 15/05/2023 19:21

children benefit is also just in the family pot here.. we have family money then once bills/savings taken out we have spending money.... although we're not massively organised so dont actually split the spending money out just spend as need....

its been this way through various jobs/sahm/breaks in jobs/part time/full-time/ill health....now youve realised think about what would work for you all. and start . lots easier now with online banking

fully visibility on all funds ..

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:25

I don't think he'd agree, he sees it as "his money".

OP posts:

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:26

The law disagrees, and has made financial abuse a crime.

lots to think about here for you OP

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:31

In a discussion about moving and buying a new property recently he uttered the term "ringfencing my money". This sounded horrible but I think this is how he views it. I'm torn because he does pay for and own more of our stuff (cars, a second property) and I earn a measly amount with only a small private pension.

OP posts:

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:38

So when he says my money, you say our money and then if he says my money again, says that’s not how the Law sees it. You are ten years together and five years married, so fifty fifty would be the starting point in a divorce.
Tell him you feel vulnerable and need a proper pension of your own, and it makes good tax sense.
tell him you want to be involved in how you manage your joint assets

most married couples have a shared way of managing money, some pool all and after all bills and expenses have equal personal spending money, and others contribute on. % basis, so if he earns 90k and you earn 10k he pays 90% of the bills and expenses and you pay 10%.

children’s costs should be a joint expense, not coming from your tiny earnings as well as half the mortgage. How much more spending money does he actually have than you do ?

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:45

I'd say he definitely pays his share it's just I have no access to his money and he keeps it very private. Although I very much feel I'm on my own where money is concerned rather than being a team.

OP posts:

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 19:50

you are being financially abused, and a reasonable man would discuss this and make changes

an unreasonable man won’t discuss it, and I would seriously wonder about a joint future.

Manichean · 15/05/2023 19:51

Its not his money OP, if you were to divorce you would be entitled to at least half the value of the house, half the savings and a chunk of his pension. He has set the tone around money - that you are not allowed to talk about it. Its crap, its all half yours anyway and he wants telling. It may be that you are a bit afraid of him, but he will know how much poorer he will be if you walk away. Have a very firm conversation with him - financial abuse is considered as coercive control and he can be prosecuted.

Talia99 · 15/05/2023 20:04

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 19:19

Thank you, he's well over the threshold for child benefit then.

I pay for my kids clothes, my own clothes, kids activities and clubs, kids birthday parties (invites), have my own spending money from my own job. I just pay towards the mortgage but he buys most other things....

But you should be claiming it anyway so you at least get the NI contributions. He would then have to pay it back via a tax return. If he earns that much, I assume he’s doing a tax return in any case.

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 20:13

I would imagine he'd be very savvy as to where to hide his money in case of the courts seeing it. He'd want to protect what he sees as his.

OP posts:

Frankieisbackfromhollywood · 15/05/2023 20:18

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 18:54

If you are married and have kids then everything you own is owned by you both, jointly
married people should have access to all monies brought into the marriage, and most people have a joint account that both people can access.
this is sounding like financial abuse, and I am sure there is a link somewhere that explains what the law says financial abuse is.
if you are contributing to the marriage by looking after your joint children, then this is of equal value to earning a salary.
it stops you earning, climbing the promotions and adding to your own pension.
Please say you claim Child Benefit, just for the National Insurance and thus access to state pension.
you may as a couple have to pay this back in tax, but the NI contribution to State Pension is vital

Op. Please note this posters opinion on what married couples “should” do is just theirs. There is no basis in law for it. You joint own all assets. You are not entitled to his money or his bank accounts and , it isn’t financial abuse, see link below, and it absolutely is his money legally, the only thing not legally just his is joint savings.

much of the advice on here has been wrong and I guess wishful thinking. If your husband wishes to share his salary with you it’s a choice, it is not a legal requirement. I am sorry.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/financial-abuse/

Financial and economic abuse - Women’s Aid

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/financial-abuse/

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 20:19

He sounds worse and worse.

I think the advice is to wait til,he is out, and then photograph all the financial paperwork you can, pay slips, pension statements, P60s and so on.
then you can decide what to do.

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 20:28

@Frankieisbackfromhollywood
that is really interesting. Thank you for posting this.
I did say it sounded like, not it is.
I had a look at the Wikipedia entry on financial abuse, and that was also interesting and seemed to imply what I was hinting at.

I am not an expert in this area at all, but I do have an opinion that a healthy marriage is based on sharing, all my worldly goods endowed and so on.

What the OP is describing does not sound fair and equal, and is worth her exploring what is actually accurate and how a married couple should share finances, and what she would be entitled to in case of a divorce

Original poster

reservationfortwo · 15/05/2023 20:43

Thank you everyone. I don't see how we could ever come to an agreement if it's not in law that's it's financial abuse as he would just say he didn't want to. I guess it's for me to leave if I don't like it.

OP posts:

Frankieisbackfromhollywood · 15/05/2023 20:59

isthewashingdryyet · 15/05/2023 20:28

@Frankieisbackfromhollywood
that is really interesting. Thank you for posting this.
I did say it sounded like, not it is.
I had a look at the Wikipedia entry on financial abuse, and that was also interesting and seemed to imply what I was hinting at.

I am not an expert in this area at all, but I do have an opinion that a healthy marriage is based on sharing, all my worldly goods endowed and so on.

What the OP is describing does not sound fair and equal, and is worth her exploring what is actually accurate and how a married couple should share finances, and what she would be entitled to in case of a divorce

Sure, but there is no “should” other than legally. Everything else is opinion and to be fair, his opinion on how to share his money in his marriage counts more than yours or mine. Just like if a woman chose not to give her lower earning husband access to her accounts or salary.

If he chooses to not share then there is no law in the land which will force him unless he’s moved onto financial abuse, which he has not from what she’s written and what womens aid are stating.

op as you said, if you don’t like it you can leave, I am sorry but legally you are not entitled to his wages.