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Original poster

What is the justification for police and civil servants getting final salary pensions?

128 replies

ladykale · 25/04/2023 18:26

Does anyone know?

Who is funding these generous pensions if they haven't put enough in all their life / value of investments isn't equal to the value of their pension??

OP posts:
Tulipvase · 25/04/2023 20:02

Felix125 · 25/04/2023 19:31

More like 16%

Show quote history

Police pensions look complicated but appears the contributions vary between 12 and 13.78% depending on salary.

Nn9011 · 25/04/2023 20:06

Final salaries are getting phased out. In civil service there was a contract change a few years ago and it impacted anyone who started after a certain date. I would imagine police have been the same or will be heading that way.

Lovelydaytomorrow · 25/04/2023 20:07

I remember as a teacher, the unions coming in to talk to us about how terrible it was that pensions were being changed from final salary to career average, and thinking (actually, I think I may have voiced my controversial opinion!) that it was so much better as I progressed to senior leadership quickly, but had absolultely no intention of working full time as deputy or head teacher until my pension. I planned on dropping down to part-time class teacher well before pensionable age and so was very happy with the change.

Turns out, final salary would have been slightly better for me as I quit well before my 40s whilst on a very good salary.

Baneofmyexistence · 25/04/2023 21:16

DH pays 13.44% of wage into his police pension. It better be bloody good at the end the amount that goes into it.

drpet49 · 25/04/2023 21:21

Tayegete · 25/04/2023 18:47

Civil Service pay rates are significantly below comparable roles in the private sector once you get to middle management grades and above. Therefore most people make a choice for a higher pension and lower pay. As others have pointed out it’s now a career average scheme.

This

Original poster
ladykale · 25/04/2023 23:29

@Nimbostratus100 pensions are the value of an investment, so if you guarantee someone a specific amount I'm wondering how they make up the shortfall.

That's why this type of pension stopped! Pension funds with huge holes...

OP posts:
Original poster
ladykale · 25/04/2023 23:33

Simplelife1 · 25/04/2023 19:45

You might need some professional help, you're clearly struggling heavily with your policeman cousin getting his well deserved and earned pension. Jealousy is not an attractive trait

???

OP posts:
BarbaraofSeville · 26/04/2023 04:58

GiltEdges · 25/04/2023 19:17

As others have pointed out, it's typically career average not final salary these days. But either way, civil servants are paid abysmally compared to much of the private sector, they deserve a better pension.

This. Many lower grades have been overtaken by the NMW.

Starting salary for a lot of graduate trainee roles is only a couple of thousand a year above NMW and there is no pay progression, the rest of the salary scale is just for show.

Even very experienced specialists often top out at £40k to £50k so a lot of people leave because they can get 50 to 100% more in the private sector.

Sunnysunbun · 26/04/2023 05:22

Good for them. People deserve decent pensions. Any attempt to trigger resentment against them is Tory and Daily mail BS.
If you want the pension then join the Police or civil service.
Did Jacob Rees Mogg put you up to this?

Rache346 · 26/04/2023 05:50

My DH works at a fairly senior level in the public sector. He could earn a hell of a lot more in the private sector (particularly if you include their bonuses). He works bloody hard and is excellent at his job. Frankly, the public sector are lucky to have him! The pension is the sweetener for the much lower than private sector pay so that's the justification in my eyes. If you want top notch people then you have to offset the pay in another way otherwise all the best people would end up in the private sector.

As for the police - it's a job most of us could not do and thank goodness there are people who can. They bloody well deserve a good pension.

yakkyok · 26/04/2023 05:58

They have changed now, I do know some older people who retired on similar salaries to what they "left" on. Problem is it's not sustainable with an ageing population so it's been watered down a lot for newer entrants & of course pensions are crap for most of the private sector.

HowManySunflowers · 26/04/2023 05:59

Public sector workers in general tend to be paid less than private sector employees but have more generous pensions. If a generous pension is important to you then you can choose to work in the public sector.

yakkyok · 26/04/2023 05:59

I thought the crap salary was disproved?

yakkyok · 26/04/2023 06:09

I moved back to the public sector specifically for the pension.

QuintanaRoo · 26/04/2023 06:09

The justification of a career average pension is that it’s part of the overall package to attract people to the career. Not as sure about police recruitment and retention but certainly in the nhs it’s hard to train and recruit staff Because the pay and condition aren’t good enough. I think the pension is what keeps some people hanging on.

QuintanaRoo · 26/04/2023 06:12

yakkyok · 26/04/2023 05:59

I thought the crap salary was disproved?

Don’t think so

What is the justification for police and civil servants getting final salary pensions?
What is the justification for police and civil servants getting final salary pensions?
Soontobe60 · 26/04/2023 06:12

LexMitior · 25/04/2023 18:42

It's for keeping their mouths shut for a lifetime. Otherwise they could sell their stories and make good money. That's the real reason, which is why it never changes. A lifetime of silence for good money.

What a ridiculous comment.

AspinallaSmythe · 26/04/2023 06:23

Rache346 · 26/04/2023 05:50

My DH works at a fairly senior level in the public sector. He could earn a hell of a lot more in the private sector (particularly if you include their bonuses). He works bloody hard and is excellent at his job. Frankly, the public sector are lucky to have him! The pension is the sweetener for the much lower than private sector pay so that's the justification in my eyes. If you want top notch people then you have to offset the pay in another way otherwise all the best people would end up in the private sector.

As for the police - it's a job most of us could not do and thank goodness there are people who can. They bloody well deserve a good pension.

This is me. Senior role, significant pay cut in the public sector, without the pension benefit I wouldn’t have joined. Mind you I had a final salary pension scheme in my corporate role.

I’m planning to leave the public sector within the next twelve months. I was looking for a better work/life balance but I work ridiculous hours, there’s no budget for bringing in additional staff and no way of increasing it which means it doesn’t matter if you work an extra day most weeks, things will never improve.

I worked fewer hours in corporate for 40% more pay, private healthcare, bonus with a really supportive team of fellow professionals etc., etc.. No brainer.

Oblomov23 · 26/04/2023 06:26

No one does generally now, do they? They are the golden era of the last 20 years, now basically stopped, aren't they?

Itsallok · 26/04/2023 06:27

And why don't they exist anymore? Because people live 30 years beyond retirement. Its unaffordable.

ChairFloorWall · 26/04/2023 06:27

BarbaraofSeville · 26/04/2023 04:58

This. Many lower grades have been overtaken by the NMW.

Starting salary for a lot of graduate trainee roles is only a couple of thousand a year above NMW and there is no pay progression, the rest of the salary scale is just for show.

Even very experienced specialists often top out at £40k to £50k so a lot of people leave because they can get 50 to 100% more in the private sector.

Show quote history

Exactly this.

There needs to be some carrot to the job or no one would join. If you’re that bothered OP, there’s plenty of roles in the Civil Service why not join yourself if you think it’s so cushty?

BarbaraofSeville · 26/04/2023 06:27

yakkyok · 26/04/2023 05:59

I thought the crap salary was disproved?

Only if you ignore the types of jobs people do.

Public sector jobs are disproportionately done by qualified professionals, doctors, nurses, other medical staff and emergency workers, regulatory, police is now a graduate role, scientists, teachers.

A lot of non graduate roles like cleaning and care work were privatised, further skewing the demographic.

So you need to compare public sector pay with typical private sector professional roles, so the well paid career pathways into law, banking, accountancy, IT, pharmaceuticals etc.

You won't find many of those types earning £30-40k ten years into their careers. And that's before bonuses and other perks that are generally non existent in the public sector. The pension might not be the same but I've seen a lot of people describe their death in service benefit as being far higher than the typical 2 to 3 times salary in the public sector.

silverlentils · 26/04/2023 06:35

MintJulia · 25/04/2023 19:05

Also worth noting that police pay 11% of their salary into their pensions, in order to get a career average.

When I looked into it, was 13 or 13.5% of their salary that went in. And retirement is at 60, the days of retiring after 30 years are gone.

ThePoshUns · 26/04/2023 06:36

They don't anymore. Trip trap

greenacrylicpaint · 26/04/2023 06:37

relative has a final salary pension.
sounds great in theory.
but their salary is made up of different elements and the pension is 70% of the main element which is less than minimum wage.
you can achieve better with a good private pension plan, especially if you are able to pay in from your very first wage.