How should expenses be split fairly in a marriage

[Dglmom]

I am married 10 years & my husband has always refused to talk about finances. Until recently, I had no idea what he earned, what he spends, what he saves, what he pension entitlements are. However, I recently went to file a personal tax return & saw from his payroll details that he is earning twice my gross salary. He has always insisted on splitting everything 50/50 - childcare, mortgage, bills, property tax, ordering oil/gas (he has let us run dry, until I pay my 50%). I work full time & in addition to our split costs, I seem to always be the first to put my hand in my pocket for grocery shopping, kids clothes, extracurricular activities, summer camps, the cleaner )which he was reluctant to get, but has only paid once).

I am a public servant, so my pension (which isn't great, being the post 2013 Single Public Service Pension Scheme) is deducted at source, but I have no savings and quite literally not one cent left to myself at the end of every month. I buy my clothes in Pennies, use cheap creams/shampoos and don't really go out or eat out, very often.

I have tried so many times to discuss this with my husband. He shuts down completely and either walks off or just say 'yea' and nothing changes. I have suggested counselling, sent emails, letters, texts - but nothing changes.

I am so hurt at this stage, that I constantly fantasise about winning the lottery and having the financial independence to leave him.

I feel totally miserable and disrespected, yet he is living his best life - spending his money on his hobbies, pastimes, social life.

There is no question of spending money on family holidays or furnishings for the house (which I would love). Those conversations go absolutely nowhere.

When we purchased our first home, we had to set up a joint account, but all he will put into this is 50% of the mortgage repayment, a few days before its due. The rest of the month, its either empty or overdrawn.

I really need advise here as to what my rights are. If I were to leave him, what would he be obliged to pay? We have 2 primary school aged children.

He’s financially abusive OP, thank god you didn’t become a SAHP.

Your money should be pooled in a marriage so you both have the same lifestyle.

You will be better off if you divorce, because after 10 years and 2 kids the assets will be split fairly evenly, often
with extra housing assets to the parent who mainly looks after the kids.

So, do some snooping, and pull all of your joint financial info. Go and see a solicitor who will talk it through with you. Then get your ducks in a row, as MN always says, and once you are ready, leave. Life will be so much better!

He may earn twice as much as you, but presumably pays higher rate tax, so I would split expenses 50/50 after tax, national insurance, pension etc.,

He would be obliged to pay child maintenance based on his earnings if you split, which if he’s a high earner could be quite a lot.

50/50 is fine in a marriage if that’s what both people agree to, and if it genuinely is 50/50 for all the joint costs. The problem comes when one partner doesn’t really pay their share, which is what it sounds like your H is doing. There should be money in the joint account for childrens activities and that kind of thing.

He is a prick who doesn't value you equally. A contribution to the marriage isn't purely in terms of paid work.

I find separate finances in a marriage fucked up. The fact he has never trusted you enough to tell you what he earns says a lot - even if you do prefer to keep finances separate.

Its financial abuse. He controls the money and your family through this. You can't plan big things - he makes the decisions.

Instead of things to benefit the whole family he prioritises his selfish interests.

This is not a marriage of equals. He sees you struggling financially and is happy with that.

He us disrespecting you massively.

Ultimately it ends up, not being about the money, but the very foundations of your relationship.

And that's why you should be considering separating. Not because of the money.

And yes it's possible you could be financially better off as you are marriage, but that would really depend on individual circumstances.

I think the underlying tone here is ultimately you aren't happy in the relationship. And that's where it begins. And ends.

I seem to always be the first to put my hand in my pocket for grocery shopping, kids clothes, extracurricular activities, summer camps, the cleaner )which he was reluctant to get, but has only paid once).

At the very least I would be getting him to up his contribution to equal yours for these sort of expenses.

“I really need advise here as to what my rights are. If I were to leave him, what would he be obliged to pay? We have 2 primary school aged children.”

Are you in Ireland? Before people start giving to advice on U.K. law (which is anyway different in the constituent countries)

Everything going out is split 50/50, then each keep the rest of what they earn.
If he's worked to get to a level of earning double and you've not, why should you get any of his money?

He should be paying 2/3 and you 1/3 of outgoings if he earns twice as much as you.
He is financially abusive, and a shit. I know what I’d be doing 🦆 🦆 🦆

To answer your thread title, there is no set way as to how expenses should be split, its up to each couple to discuss/decide. My DH and I split rent/bills 50/50 but we earn a similar amount. I pay 95% of groceries cause I WFH and my DH is a chef so never eats at home. Holidays/nights out we take in turn.
To be blunt though, I can't really fathom how you could entertain & get married AND go on to have children without discussing this and knowing how much he earns! Financial transparency is a cornerstone of a functioning relationship.

I am married 10 years & my husband has always refused to talk about finances. Until recently, I had no idea what he earned, what he spends, what he saves, what he pension entitlements are.

^I can't get past the fact you don't know this basic information after 10 years!!! Why have you carried on like this????

This is horribly abusive op, it's so mean & controlling and sorry you are going through it

In your position (& yes, posters might ask his on earth you ever got to this stage - but that's not the point that needs solving now!) I would get legal advice asap

There is not necessarily a norm in how people split finances as MN clearly shows!

If it helps to know various situations though - in our marriage everything is visible, all goes into one pot. All bills/food/kids' stuff comes out. We each spend what we want within reason on small stuff and big items like holidays, cars, house things etc. are agreed between us.
We used to earn similar but after redundancies (both of us) dh is a sahd/house husband and i am the sole earner working as a consultant. Plus we have a BTL we bought for his Dad to live in after PIL split up which is our pension

I cannot imagine being married without this level of transparency. Isn't it part of the vows?!

Oh OP that sounds rotten!

Whilst there isn’t a set way to do this in a good marriage, your way clearly isn’t ok. He would say it’s 50/50 but it isn’t if he isn’t paying for groceries and stuff for the kids. So you are paying more than 50% of household costs while earning 33% of the income. That can’t be right.

I earn five times my DP. We share everything - so all money in one pot except for a certain amount that we both keep for our own spends (same amount each). We have very different interests so this works for best for us. I know others who keep it all separate but share costs in the % of their income, which wouldn’t sit right with me (I couldn’t keep more to myself than my DP has) but it works for them.

If you leave, he will have to pay child maintenance (assuming you will be the primary carer for your children) and as you are married you will get a share of all assets. Nobody on here can tell you what share you will get as it depends on so many things, so you should get some advice. (Lots of people on MN always tell people they will be entitled to 50% of everything, but this is too simplistic.)

Do you feel able to sit down with him and have a discussion about this to say he needs to start paying his fair share or you will leave? And then mean it.

Wishing you all the best OP.

Honestly this is ridiculous.

You are married!

I'd divorce him and take half.

That is financial abuse, forcing you to pay all the children's costs while he spends on himself. What a horrible abusive selfish deceitful little man.

Go see a lawyer, meet a few, find one you like and is recommended. Someone who will be assertive on your behalf. Be prepared, it will be very tough for a while, but your freedom is at the end of it.

At least half of all assets are yours (more if you are resident parent), bank accounts, investments, savings, pensions etc. He will have to front up with a years banks statements for the Form E, you need go through it and find out where the money is going. He will try to hide assets etc so try to get copies/photos of absolutely every financial document you can find first. Give him as little warning as possible to hide assets - he can learn we can all be mean and selfish if we want to.

Child support will depend on how much he has the children, but sounds like you will be better off no matter what. Either he pays CMS (there is a calculator you can play around with, its about 16% of pretax salary) or he has the children 50/50 and pays for all their costs while they are with him and does everything for them in his time. Don't be nice, treat him exactly as he has treated you for all these years.

Find a lawyer who will take their fee at the end if you can, or see if you can borrow the money, it is an investment and all comes out of the same pot of money eventually. Don't be bullied and intimidated or threatened and pressured to walk away with less. Refuse to discuss it with him, direct all communications to your lawyer, and instruct them to ignore anything that comes direct from him - as that is a well known trick to add to your costs by being difficult. Remember with your lawyer you are the client and they need to do (or not do) what you ask them to. And dont use them as a counsellor!

You need to file for the divorce first, this way you control the process. Get your form A in asap, I would do it at the same time as telling him. Considering the financial abuse you can get out of the mediation process (MIAM) its a waste of money and time with a financial abuser. Womens aid or Rights of women could be helpful from this perspective. This gives a good overview of the process: www.familycourtinfo.org.uk/i-need/how-court-works/flowchart-for-financial-remedy-cases/

This is your children's future as well as your own, you already know he will do nothing he does not have to for them. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what you walk away with to start your new life.

This is ridiculous, OP. I’ve been married for over 20 years and while we’ve always had our salaries paid into our own accounts, we’ve never behaved the way your DH does.
I completely supported my DH while he did a two-year Master’s, for example, and he supported me when I did mine.

We’re both open about what we have in our personal accounts, no secrets at all.

His attitude is abusive, OP, I think you’d be better off without him. 💐

Agree OP your situation is not normal or sustainable.

DH and I have always had a joint account. At first we paid in a proportion of our income to cover the bills, but once we got married and bought a house and had kids etc we just have a joint account and everything goes in and out of there. Savings are a mix of joint and individual names, but nothing is secret.

We also have a joint account for bills but we’re completely open about our personal savings/pensions. We’re married with children so we’re a financial team.

Married but no kids (2nd marriage) he’s self employed and I have a PAYE job but earn twice what he does. Monthly outgoings to run house/ his car (I have a company car) is approx £1500 a month. I cover 2/3rds. When his business picks up it will go to 50/50.

your oh is financially abusive and will get a nasty shock when he’s forced to reveal his financials to a court. LTB.

We had joint accounts with no personal ones. All our money went in and everything was shared equally. There were times when I earned more and times when my wife earned more.

@Mindymomo @Mommabear20 what?! Outgoings are proportional to income. It's very very simple to work out. Yes, DH might have worked hard to earn a lot if money but does it mean the DW worked less for a smaller salary - no it doesn't. Eg. I earn a good 50% more than my DH but he is a frontline NHS worker whose work is much more difficult and valuable. I wouldn't dream of asking him for 50% outgoings leaving him with very little for himself - that is mean and not in the spirit of partnership. If you are paying 50% bug earn less, you are being taking advantage of.

“ordering oil/gas (he has let us run dry, until I pay my 50%)” this but alone let’s you know this isn’t right and feels financially abusive. No-one decent would do that to their wife and children .

My husband earns much more than me- he pushed harder for our finances to become joint than I did. Our money is all family money- we use our tax allowances sensibly and plan our budgets, short and long-term goals etc. I can’t comprehend not even being told his salary or him living it up while you’re scraping by.

This is never going to get better
I would make plans to leave with the assistance of a SHL.. you will be much better off in all sorts of ways

This is not OK! My DH is a bit of an ostrich about money and prefers me to do all the planning ahead, but he wouldn't let us run out of something we needed on some kind of twisted principle.

And people like this are generally perfectly happy to use public services. The lower salaries and less generous pensions don't bother them then.

Marriage is meant to be an equal partnership. Everything of ours goes in one big pot. I had more money behind me when we first met, but DH has always earnt considerably more. When he inherited a share of of DPs property, it went towards paying our mortgage. At this point in time, he's paid far more in, but we both have an equal amount each per month. Moving forward I could potentially inherit a large amount, which I think we'd invest in a much better property in joint names. Over our life it'll be swings and roundabouts, but I don't think we care one way or the other.

Children negatively impact a woman’s earnings over a lifetime. This is true even if she is a high earner. Most couples pool income, which spreads those loses to both parents which is more appropriate. You haven’t been splitting things 50:50, you have been subsidizing your husband since you had children.