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Original poster

Is this not fraudulent?

62 replies

slippysept · 08/06/2022 21:08

Went out for a meal last week. Split the bill with a friend. Her credit card transaction got declined although we had left the restaurant in a hurry to catch our train so didn't know until I noticed they had charged me twice on my card to make up for hers being declined.

I had used contactless to pay for my share of the bill but mist certainly had not agreed for it to be used for her share.

There's no issue with me getting the money from her but can restaurants actually do this (their defence was that the table bill needed paying no matter what).

OP posts:
WhatNowwwww · 08/06/2022 21:11

Sounds seriously dodgy to me!

Botoxbotox · 08/06/2022 21:12

How could they put it through twice without you tapping twice on the machine I wonder?

Riverlee · 08/06/2022 21:13

How did it happen? Surely you would have tapped it twice, or got two receipts, or three if you accept the declined one.

Honaloulou · 08/06/2022 21:15

Another one who doesn't understand how this happened - you you'd have seen them amount on the machine and agreed to it.

Didn't you know that your friends card had been declined before you left?

IcedOatLatte · 08/06/2022 21:16

How could that even happen if you weren't there to give your card a second time. I cant imagine how that would work.

missymarrk · 08/06/2022 21:21

Was it 2 separate transactions for the same amount?

Unless you tapped twice there is no way of charging your card, unless you stored your card details as a deposit when booking maybe?

Original poster
slippysept · 08/06/2022 21:35

They only gave me a receipt for one transaction. I certainly don't recall tapping twice. In any case, even if I did by mistake, at the time, my friend paid her share so they should not have proceeded to debit me twice. They sent me two receipts when I messaged them today. Both for the same amount but different receipt numbers. One says 'No CVM used'. I don't know what this means, tbh.

OP posts:
Original poster
slippysept · 08/06/2022 21:36

No stored card details as we went on a whim to the restaurant.

OP posts:
Original poster
slippysept · 08/06/2022 21:38

No, we didn't know friend's card had been declined - we were rushing for a train so assumed all had gone through correctly

OP posts:
Chasingsquirrels · 08/06/2022 21:41

What does no CVM used mean?

“No CVM” is a cardholder verification method (or lack thereof) available for EMV cards. Typically, “no CVM” is selected for unattended POS systems or for systems that lack the peripheral equipment to support PIN or signature verification. Additionally, “no CVM” can be set to be value-specific.

LIZS · 08/06/2022 21:42

Card Voucher Machine?

LIZS · 08/06/2022 21:42

Or Validation perhaps?

JustLyra · 08/06/2022 21:44

slippysept · 08/06/2022 21:35

They only gave me a receipt for one transaction. I certainly don't recall tapping twice. In any case, even if I did by mistake, at the time, my friend paid her share so they should not have proceeded to debit me twice. They sent me two receipts when I messaged them today. Both for the same amount but different receipt numbers. One says 'No CVM used'. I don't know what this means, tbh.

You need to speak to them and asked how they got your card number to put through an unattended transaction.

they shouldn’t have stored details like that.

AgnesNaismith · 08/06/2022 21:44

It is no cardholder verification method

Oblomov22 · 08/06/2022 21:50

That would hack most people off. Restaurants can't / shouldn't do that.

SwedishEdith · 08/06/2022 21:56

Oblomov22 · 08/06/2022 21:50

That would hack most people off. Restaurants can't / shouldn't do that.

Agree it feel iffy but what do they do about customers leaving after only paying 50% of the bill?

messybutfun · 08/06/2022 22:08

I don’t get the declined card bit, the card is either accepted or declined when you tap it. It doesn’t happen at some later stage.

LIZS · 08/06/2022 22:12

How did you know it was declined? Could it be a held payment pending you contacting them with df details? You could dispute it via your bank.

SlatsandFlaps · 08/06/2022 22:16

I would call your bank and speak to them about it. That is definitely fraudulent

Tomikka · 08/06/2022 23:05

To be fair to the restaurant, they had two people asking to be charged half each, who paid one half, and rushed away before the other half bounced.
They could have been asking the same question as to whether that was a scam.
They hadn’t committed fraud, but had made a charge not authorised by you

Had you both not rushed off then your friend would be told it’s declined and the full total remained with you both still there being asked to pay the whole bill

To reprocess the amount when you were no longer there, they will have needed a point of sale system that held the full details of your card to process a second payment - otherwise they would have needed to know the full number details to manually process another payment

The ‘no CVM’ note highlights that it was neither tapped within contactless limits nor the card number typed in plus PIN authorisation to verify

Another possibility (not in this case as they have confirmed double processing) would be an incomplete transaction followed by a complete transaction which can mean a ‘pre authorisation’ shows on your account as pending plus a completed transaction. The pending would later expire and be released against your account

Original poster
slippysept · 09/06/2022 06:03

Tomika that makes sense.

We don't have an issue with paying the amount, just with how it was done. I didn't know they could store your card details and then charge it if you don't authorise this.

Not that it matters but the reason we were late for the train and had to rush off was that they failed to deliver us the bill. After waiting 25 minutes, we got up from the table and went to the till ourselves to hurry it along before we made a mad dash to the station. We didn't know the credit card payment hadn't gone through. They didn't say anything at the time. I'm unsure if my friend was given a receipt though I was at the time (for one transaction only for half the amount).

OP posts:
SolasAnla · 09/06/2022 06:22

Tomikka · 08/06/2022 23:05

To be fair to the restaurant, they had two people asking to be charged half each, who paid one half, and rushed away before the other half bounced.
They could have been asking the same question as to whether that was a scam.
They hadn’t committed fraud, but had made a charge not authorised by you

Had you both not rushed off then your friend would be told it’s declined and the full total remained with you both still there being asked to pay the whole bill

To reprocess the amount when you were no longer there, they will have needed a point of sale system that held the full details of your card to process a second payment - otherwise they would have needed to know the full number details to manually process another payment

The ‘no CVM’ note highlights that it was neither tapped within contactless limits nor the card number typed in plus PIN authorisation to verify

Another possibility (not in this case as they have confirmed double processing) would be an incomplete transaction followed by a complete transaction which can mean a ‘pre authorisation’ shows on your account as pending plus a completed transaction. The pending would later expire and be released against your account

To be fair to the restaurant they did commit a fraud on the credit card when they decided to charge an unauthorised amount.

The OP only authorised one charge on her card and was given a reciept
Her friends card once approved would have generated a receipt too. If the staff member let her leave the premises without completing the transaction and printing a reciept that failure is the responsibility of the staff.

The restaurant will have accessed the OPs card data stored on the system (till reciept or electronic file), creating a GDPR data breach, to process an additional charge.

OP check the time stamps on your 2 reciepts

Moosake · 09/06/2022 06:24

Give them a ring and ask?

Lulubo1 · 09/06/2022 06:31

I used to work at a hotel. We regularly put through payments without the cardholder being there. (I'm going back around 13yrs ago). When you tap your card, two receipts are produced. One for the restaurant and one for you. The cardholder receipt has some of the card numbers blocked out, that's the one you take. If you drop it, no one can get your details. But the receipt for the hotel/restaurant shows your full card number with expiry date. My assumption (and please bear in mind, this is only my assumption) is that when your friends card was declined, they manually punched in the card numbers from your receipt into the card machine and processed the payment that way. When I worked at the hotel, we would do this if guests left without paying or damaged a room without paying. They would give us their card details at check-in, so we had them stored. Trust me when I say, companies absolutely store your card details, even if they say they don't.

Lulubo1 · 09/06/2022 06:48

Sadly I don't think this is a GDPR breach. From my training about 3 years ago, companies can keep your data if it's for "legitimate interest" and payments fall under that that. If it relates to debt collection, they can keep your data. It's the most flexible of the GDPR rules and most business will use that as an excuse to keep your data. I may be wrong, but that's roughly what I remember from my training. I hate to be a Debbie downer.
I think it's really dodgy that companies can do that and get away with it.