BBC are saying you need a joint salary of 70,000 to avoid poverty

[bridgetjonesmassivepants]

I find this such a high sum. How are most families meant to reach this figure? It doesn't include pension contributions so you would probably need 80,000 by their reckoning.
They are saying that you are in poverty if you can't manage a UK holiday every year and 70 a month on cultural experiences.

You can't assume no housing costs. Someone who lives with parents and pays no rent could theoretically survive on a few hundred pounds a month! Theoretically, we could all do that, given that many of us have parents with an extra room or two. But that is not representative of social norms in the UK.

I agree with this plus on energy costs I did hear that likely to be higher outside London as more likely to be detached, older stock, colder etc - can’t remember exact but I do recall a few threads on here where after having heating off the range was quite big and my house would be warmer after say 24 hours

The big differences are price of houses and childcare

Childcare cost changes post 3 though

Yes I tried that - 2 adults and 2 secondary school aged children and said we needed to earn about 20k each.
Rent was £93/week!

unless you are all living in 1 room....

www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/greater_manchester/prestwich/16184609

This isn't even in London.

I paid about that much for a single room in a shared house over 20 years ago!

my MIL supports herself and an adult daughter on less than £18k per month.

I'm thinking this is a typo as there are not many people who would find that challenging!

I’d love to see your budget. (Not sarky, genuinely hoping to learn something)

It told me we needed a joint income of £33,000 so not sure how you got £70,000!

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee lol typo! less than 18k per year. I mean, its around £1200 after tax and NI. small mortgage of £300 (due to divorce), council tax of £140 per month, electricity, water and gas. There isn't lots to spare but i think she makes it work.

That calculator is rubbish though. It has nowhere to add in outgoings like debts, pensions over and above the minimum and so on. And it seems to assume rent of about £200/month 😳

DH earns £40k, and I’m starting a business - in time I’d hope to be making about £1500-£2000 a month but at the moment I’m nowhere near that of course. We manage ok, we’re certainly not suffering the way some people are, but we’re definitely not rolling in it. £70k would be fabulous, although we’d have higher costs - at the moment we have no childcare costs, but for me to be making a higher amount we’d need childcare which would be another chunk. We’re also on oil heating so we’re pretty vulnerable to price fluctuations with that as well. No price cap on heating oil…!

@Spudlet you can adjust your housing costs using the calculator. And in terms of pensions, i think its a bit like mortgage overpayments, you can go overboard a little and i do know a lot of high earners who do, and feel skint as a result. I pay £1k in mortgage overpayments and feel skint as a result sometimes, but its actually just another form of saving, as our ISA has a very low interest rate, lower than our mortgage rate.

Surely it all depends on your outgoings!

Woman I know earns £40k - single parent. Absolutely racking it in with ex paying another £800 a month on top of her salary. To top it off her mortgage is only £200 a month!

But if you earned £40k and had a mortgage of £1500 a month and no ex husband handing out money - you'd be massively struggling.

We earn joint £40k and we definitely struggled.

Theres a huge difference of an average split between 2 earners or one, even. Because you both get an individual tax allowance (it’s my pet grumble. It’s such a disadvantage for widowed parents and seems so unfair)

I think what this shows is, you can't just put a minimum figure on life.

It depends on how the household is made up.

Are their childcare costs?

How much is their housing cost?

Do they have debt?

Are they receiving maintenance?

How are the family doing at budgeting?

So many variables that you can't just stick a figure on.

@CoastalWave I assume that whatever figure they give out assumes 2 parents, no help with childcare, 1-2 children, market rent for a 2-3 bed property (as amount of mortgage differs so much depending on when you bought as well as your deposit). My mortgage is lower than what I would have spent renting but I did buy a 2 bed flat; most people I know actually spent less renting as they try to buy the biggest home they can afford.
Single parent would be higher due to lack of 2 personal allowances.

What about rent and bills @Herja ?

Overthebow

Our household income is similar to yours, however we are clearly not as comfortable as you!

We are 10 to 15 years older
Both work full-time
Have mortgage on small tiny 840 sq ft house 3 bed terrace
One decent car
If our dc have a school trip, we cannot pay for this and have even one family break/holiday that year
Emergency fund of less than £2K
No savings

How we cut corners:
Polish own nails
Colour and cut own hair
Bring lunch to work everyday
No impromptu coffees or snacks out
Shop at Lidl
No newspapers or magazines
Clothes/shoes from H&M, Next, M&S, New Look

Things that are definitely more expensive in London IME are drinks in bars and hair / beauty treatments - both fairly optional. Also getting stuff done on your home - less optional if it is repairs. But I agree, there are cheaper features, travel especially, no need for multiple cars and the fact your house will probably be smaller!

This depends on where you live. I live in central london and £70k combined would not be anywhere near enough!

I'm quite interested in this comment.

Are there no people in Central London who are low earners?

I really think we need to talk about how much money you need after necessary expenditure, which is different for everyone. So for us - we spend 2k on childcare (2 kids) and 2k on rent (2 bed flat). Plus 350 transport, 160 council tax. So thats 4,500 without any extras like food. In London those costs are pretty standard. Thats 2,250 each before you even give your kids their dinner or wash them or heat the place. Thats 70k annual salary without food, heating or clothes..........

So yes if we had no rent or childcare - then 70k is plenty. But with all the above - 70k doesnt even get you food in London

Yes - but they will either be living in houseshares or in social housing so will have cheap rent.

If you do own in central London and have a family it’s likely your income is more (probably a fair bit higher) but the option is there to move further out

You might need more to live centrally but if you own then the idea of poverty still doesn’t work.

Many people just move a bit further out to make a family work in London

I had a lot less than that and was fine, once kids no longer need childcare things aren't as tight.

Now I live with dp and things are even better financially on paper though we are stuffing pensions and isas for retirement

I doubt many people on low wage jobs or nmw working in Central London can afford to live in Central London. (Ie zone 1) I know people who work in retail who commute for over an hour to their job. I imagine it's the same for those who work in restaurants etc. I do know a few people in their early 20s paying 1k + bills for a room in a shared house.