Credit Style chasing for estimated and far too high Avro Energy bill

[Spellfish]

Has anyone had any deadlines with Credit Style around energy bills from firms that went bust. I just had a rather scary-looking letter from them asking for a significant amount of money to be repaid, dating back to December 2020 and January 2021.

Googling suggests they’re a legitimate firm but with dodgy tactics. I know the bill must be wrong, as they’re suggesting I used more gas in two months than I usually use in a year. The bill doesn’t say what the meter reading codes are, but I’m guessing E is for estimated (no idea what F or N are, though possibly from googling C is Customer reading).

I’m planning to write back asking for correct meter readings and new estimates, plus what my direct debit payments went to if it wasn’t to pay this bill, as I continued to pay (to various firms, I moved to another that immediately went bust) right the way through.

Is there anything else it would be sensible to do at this point? Apart from keep written records of all corrrespondence, which I’m doing.

Look up back billing, energy firms are not allowed to chase you for debts that are over a year old. I would send a strongly worded letter to that effect stating clearly that estimates are grossly incorrect and therefore for anything prior to March 21 is uncollectable. And request more details, metre readings etc on more recent charges etc These dodgy companies buy the debt cheap and try to strong arm people into paying through fear and intimidation, fight back and often they move on to an easier mark.

Thanks Ohsugar! I’ll have a look at back billing, though its tricky as I didn’t ask for a final bill or anything, so it looks like maybe it doesn’t apply. Also, all my readings went straight online and since the various energy companies went bust I can no longer access the websites / apps to check them. I know I did them, and will keep a separate record from now on, but it doesn’t help for back then.

I’ll start with an email asking for all the meter readings I gave the various companies, as what they say I used is so clearly incorrect. If they come back with sensible readings, I’m happy to pay. If not, I’ll move on to saying that it’s over a year old so they can’t chase me for it, and asking for formal confirmation in writing that this ends the matter and that they won’t do anything that affects my credit score.

F is final reading when you change suppliers, ime.

What does it say exactly? F or E or C? F would be the final reading supplied by you. Normally, you have to give meter reading when you change supplier so you should at least have the start reading with your current supplier. If the bill is for more gas than you use in a year, the estimated reading should be approximately what the real reading was in January 2022, so that should be easy to prove from your current reading/latest start reading. Did you have a final bill from the other suppliers you used in the interim periods?

@chesirecat99 It has a selection! For electricity it has E, then C (about a month later) than F on the date I think should be the final reading. For gas, it has E, then N (about a month later, same date as the electricity reading) and then F on the same date as the F for the electricity reading.

I don’t have a final bill from the interim suppliers as the next one was Green Network Energy which then went bust and that account was transferred to EDF. Because it’s all electronic, and now the websites / apps don’t work (or at least, my login to my old accounts don’t work), I don’t have anything to show what I owed and the meter readings. I do have my bank records of the direct debits going out. They were paperless accounts, so I have emails saying ‘thanks for your meter reading’ or ‘your bill is now available online’ but nothing that I can now access.

On the gas, it says that in two months I used 22800 kWh, which is way higher than my (pre pandemic, so probably a bit low) estimate of about 18000 kWh per year. And significantly higher than the 12000 kWh per year estimate I got from a recent supplier, though they only supplied me over the summer months.

On the gas, it says that in two months I used 22800 kWh, which is way higher than my (pre pandemic, so probably a bit low) estimate of about 18000 kWh per year.

That estimate could be meaningless, it depends whether you gave them actual readings from previous bills or they just estimated on average usage for a house of your home's size.

F suggests that you gave them a final reading. Did you leave Avro to go to Green before Avro went bust?

C is a customer reading so I would assume that is correct.

I thought Avro and Green went bust at the same time? I suppose it is possible that the final meter reading when you transferred has been lost because Green ceased trading so they final meter reading is from when you joined EDF.

Can you list the dates, readings and codes that you have from Avro and EDF and the current reading? Then we can at least work out how much you have used since your last customer reading. You also will know how much you have paid in DDs. However, they will have to estimate how much of the total amount was used per month based on previous usage. It might actually be in your favour that they have decided that you used a huge amount over 12 months ago rather than spreading it equally over 12 months, if Avro hadn't charged you correctly and you did actually use the gas... However, I'm not sure how the backbilling rules work when a company goes bust, you might need to speak to CAB or Ofgem for advice.

Did you leave Avro to go to Green before Avro went bust?

I mean as opposed to leaving to go to Green because Avro went bust. If you were mid transfer when Avro went bust, that could have caused issues.

@chesirecat99

Timeline was:

5 Dec 2020 - Avro elec E 84504, Avro gas E 16754

29 Dec 2019 Avro DD went out of my account

2 Jan 2021 - Avro elec C 85103, Avro gas N 17205

2 Jan had emailed request from Avro for meter reading, so the C 2 Jan 2021 reading for electricity makes sense, but the N code for gas doesn’t.

28 Jan 2021 - Avro elec F 85546, Avro gas F 17487

Switched from Avro Energy to Green Network Energy 28 Jan 2021 (date of F reading was 28 Jan 21, so that fits)

1 Feb 2022 Green Network energy DD came out of my account
Ditto 1 March 2022, 1 April 2022

Green Network Energy went bust and I was automatically switched to EDF. No info accessible from online accounts from either Green Network Energy or EDF, and I didn’t get paper copies.

14 May 2022 EDF DD came out of my account, then again 1 June 2022 (and onwards at the beginning of the month)

Looking at all of that, could it be that I really used significantly more gas in December 2020? I don’t want to get out of paying what I really owe. It just looked odd, as my estimates for usage are very different. I’ve got usage estimates from four different sources (I change supplier each year) which I could add if that helps?

To be fair to EDF, with some faffing I do actually still have access to my account with them, so that adds some more data:
27 April 2021 - EDF elec C 87097, EDF gas C 18261
23 Aug 2021 - EDF elec C 88291, EDF gas C 18449
3 Oct 2021 - EDF elec E 88789, EDF gas E 18494
9 Oct 2021 - EDF elec C 88867, EDF gas C 18506

And to answer your question, I switched to Green Energy Network before Avro went bust, to get a better deal. The switch happened, then they both failed, and EDF automatically got my account.

What are your current readings, @Spellfish?

As most of the recent readings are Customer readings C I would guess that these are correct. At some point you have therefore used the gas you are being asked to pay for. The one which is most likely to be wrong is the first one which is an estimate E (16754) and is probably an underestimate so it makes it look like you used a lot in Dec20 and Jan21 when in fact some of the high usage was before this.

Don't forget you may have been at home more than usual over winter 20/21 due to lockdowns/ working from home etc.

Your current readings would give a more accurate picture of whether the final reading seems accurate but if you assume that you did give Avro the correct final readings, you used 1019 cubic metres between 28 January 21 and 9 October 21, thats 11376 kWh over 8 months but most of those were summer months so your gas usage should have been less during that period. It's not too far off your estimate of 1800kWh per year though.

If you left Avro long before they went bust, that makes things simpler. If they haven't billed you until now, the backbilling rules would apply. Are you sure that they didn't bill you though? Maybe the bill was online? Can you check to see if you got a "your bill is online" email after you closed the account or after the last direct debit was paid?

If there is nothing, I would write and state that you closed your account with Avro on @8 January and Avro has not billed you since then, and, as the energy was used over 12 months ago, you cannot be charged for it under backbilling rules. But maybe speak to CAB and Ofgem for advice first.

Thanks @Mumski45 and @chesirecat99 Current readings are elec 91481 and gas 19834.

I do actually have an email from Avro saying you have a final bill. But I seem to remember (but can’t prove) that I thought it was just telling me they were taking it off my DD, rather than that I needed to do anything. Perhaps they went bust before doing that? I didn’t cancel the DD for a while, as I wasn’t sure exactly when the final payment would come out.

I would think the final readings are probably correct then (or too low rather than too high, if they are wrong), as that would mean you've used 26201kWh of gas since 28 Jan 21 (13.5 months). I think your estimate of 18000 per year is too low. You've used approx 522 kWh electricity per month since 9 Oct 21, so using 443kWh between the 2 Jan 21 customer reading and the final reading on 28 Jan 21 seems correct too.

Check all your bank statements to see if it was taken by DD and in case you paid by card or transfer from another account if the DD had been closed.

As Avro billed you, backbilling would only apply for energy used more than 12 months before the date of the bill. When did they send it? I suppose it is possible that some of the catch up amount due to estimated bills might have been over 12 months old from the date of the bill.

But... you said On the gas, it says that in two months I used 22800 kWh. Is that what is says on the bill or did you convert it yourself??! Is your gas meter in cubic feet rather than cubic metres? The amount of cubic feet/metres that you used (in terms of numbers) seems correct as you seem to have used a similar amount per month this winter. Either the bill is in the wrong units or your estimate is based on the wrong unit. The readings tie in with your kWh annual estimate (ish) if I calculate it in cubic metres but the bill is correct that you used 22800kWh in 2 months if I calculate it in cubic feet. Cubic metres seems more likely unless you live in a draughty castle, based on the average household gas consumption (12000 kWh per year) in the UK. If it's cubic feet, you used over 80k kWh in the past year, @Spellfish

The direct debits came out as follows, and I don’t have another account so this should be all of it as I checked for the names of companies and not just the direct debits:
29 Dec 2021 Avro DD
1 Feb 2022 Green Network energy DD, then 1 March 2022, 1 April 2022
14 May 2022, EDF Energy, then 1 June 2022 (and onwards)

On 26 Feb 2021, I got this message asking for final payment and saying “If you have already made this payment in the last 7 days or already have a payment arrangement in place then please ignore this email.”. So I assumed it would come out via direct debit. But its only a month after the bill, so I think back billing doesn’t apply.

On the gas, my final bill (just received on paper via Credit Style) from Avro says:
Meter units used in the charge period
Price £/kWh £0.024350
kWh used 22845
Cost of gas used £556
Standing charge £10
Subtotal £567
VAT at 5% £29
Cost of gas supplied (inc VAT) £595

Formula
Meter units 732.40
Volume conversion factor 2.83
Metric units 2072.69 x volume correction 1.02264 x caloric value 38.8
Convert to kWh / 3.6
kWh used 22845

So it looks like its all in kWh, and I can’t see anything about cubic feet on there. Standard terraced house, no castles here! Though we have been at working from home and I do feel the cold, I still think it’s unlikely that we’re using hugely more than other families in similar houses.

@chesirecat99 Thank you so much for your help on this!

Can you look at your meter to see if it says what the "meter units" are, cubic feet or metres, @Spellfish? Like the pictures in this link:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3hjH7Ptrt9tHDG618NQwC3Z/reading-meters

@chesirecat99 Gas meter is in M3 (so meters cubed, I assume). But, it is a relatively new meter - replaced (according to the sticker on it) on 2 September 2020. Could that be part of the confusion?

Ok. You are being charged for cubic feet, @Spellfish. That's what this means:

Volume conversion factor 2.83

You may need to go back to Sep 2020 to check whether you were charged incorrectly between Sep 20 and now. In fact, you should probably check before that too. Do you have bills from your previous supplier before Avro to see what units the old meter was?

www.gov.uk/guidance/gas-meter-readings-and-bill-calculation

I make your final gas bill 8072 kWh, £196.55 (ex VAT and standing charge) but you might have been overcharged for the whole time you were with Avro.

If your meter was changed, I'm surprised it didn't restart at zero. I guess not!

Disclaimer, I am not an expert but I am 99.9% sure I am right.

@chesirecat99 So is it that they switched the meter to m3, but carried on billing me as though I was on cubic feet? Is that how you got to the £196.55 calculation? And if you’re not an expert, you do a very good impression of being one!

Switched from Igloo Energy to Avro Energy 5 Feb 2020 (no Igloo bills accessible online any more - I’m going to print them out from now on as this is just silly).

2 Sept 2020 gas meter replaced - I gave a meter reading the day before it was replaced (no record, was online, but I have an email saying I did) and then I emailed to check what I should do about providing readings from the new meter. They replied asking for details of the sticker on the new meter, so I emailed Avro telling them that the sticker on the new meter says old meter 36952 reading, new meter reading 16531. I also sent them a 29 Sept gas meter reading (via email) 16563.

So no, the new meter didn’t start from zero. Which is why I emailed them at the time, to send the readings, as that seemed odd to me.

I have had to analyse business usage and plough through a mountain of gas bills a few times so I am familiar with the calculations but not an expert

You used 956 units of gas between Sep 20 and the final bill in Jan 21. You use 1328 units of gas between Oct 21 and Mar 22. The monthly average was roughly the same, so I think the readings are correct.

I used the same formula to calculate kWh as Avro used but omitted the volume conversion factor because your meter measures in cubic metres. The volume conversion factor is used to convert imperial gas units (100 cubic feet) to metric gas units (1 cubic metre) if you have an old imperial meter.

This is how I calculated it:

Formula
Meter units 732.40
This is the number of units your meter has counted ie
17487 - 16754 = 733
(I am guessing they had the reading to 2 decimal places, hence the difference of 0.6 units)
I used their figure of 732.40 in my calculations as it is more accurate.

Volume conversion factor 2.83

I omitted this step because your meter is metric
What they did was:
732.40 imperial units x 2.83 = 2072.69 metric units

The next step is:

Metric units x volume correction x caloric value

It should be:
732.4 metric units x 1.02264 x 38.8 = 29060.48 MJ
But they used 2072.69 metric units from the incorrect conversion calculation.
2072.69 metric units x 1.02264 x 38.8 = 82241.09 MJ

The volume correction factor of 1.02264 is to account for gas expanding and contracting at different temperatures/pressures. It is set by government regulations.

The calorific value is how much energy each cubic metre of gas can produce, 38.8 MJ (megajoules) per cubic metre. So this step of the calculation is calculating the amount of energy available from the volume of gas used (which is what the meter measures).

Convert to kwH

You then divide the total by 3.6 to convert MJ to kWh
It shoud be:
29060.48/3.6 = 8072 kWh
Their calculation was:
82241.09/3.6 = 22,845 kWh

This step is just converting one measure of energy (MJ) to a different measure of energy (kWh), like converting inches to centimetres.

Price £/kWh £0.024350

I've then calculated the cost by:
8072 kWh x £0.024350 = £196.55
instead of their calculation of:
22,845 kWh x £0.024350 = £556.26

It's not uncommon for gas companies to charge for the wrong units if records haven't been updated after a meter has been changed:

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/15/gas-meter-blunder-consumers-out-of-pocket-eon-compensation

TLDR: Yes, they continued charging you in cubic feet instead of cubic metres when you changed meter.

I think I may have overcomplicated that explanation, @Spellfish

In other words...

Your meter is metric. I know they are charging you as if your meter were imperial because I can see in the calculations that you posted that they have done an imperial to metric volume conversion as part of their calculations.

So glad @chesirecat99 has got to the bottom of this for you now @Spellfish. You should be able to dispute the old bill with all these calculations.

@Mumski45 I will!
@chesirecat99 Thank you so much!

Good luck with your challenge Spellfish. This is the problem with paperless billing, companies want us to go paperless because it's easier and cheaper for them (although they always cite environmental concerns) but if they then go bust, customers lose access to their records.