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Original poster

Benefit Fraud

113 replies

SteveCampbell · 04/03/2022 23:56

Hi. I know this may be a touchy subject, but I've been thinking about this for a while and would like to know other people's opinions on this. As a morality issue how do you feel about reporting people for benefit fraud? I do have a specific scenario in mind, but I'd like to know, without any nuance, how you feel about reporting it in general.

OP posts:
carmenitapink · 05/03/2022 14:51

@JTK392

I don’t agree that morally tax evasion is the same as benefit fraud. One is failing to pay a bill to the taxpayer and one is actively stealing from the taxpayer. Stealing seems like a worse crime to me than keeping money you have earned for yourself.

Have you been privy to the oh-so-burdensome to evade tax conversations? Or the excitement about (what is essentially) war profiteering? That is the morality that I hear bandied about in tax evasion conversations. The horrible burden of not being domiciled in the UK and trying to “sneak” in undetected so as not to spend too much time here. Evasion is theft. And money isn’t always so hard-earned, much of it is opportunistic at the expense of others, not to the proportional benefit of others.

What's wrong with not wanting to pay U.K. tax if you aren't domiciled here??
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 05/03/2022 14:54

I stay out of it, never know everything about people’s circumstances and I won’t have more money if I dob them in.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 05/03/2022 14:56

if people didn’t take the piss, people who really needed it would likely be able to have more hate to burst this bubble of yours but they wouldn’t

JTK392 · 05/03/2022 15:03

What's wrong with not wanting to pay U.K. tax if you aren't domiciled here??
@carmenitapink

Nothing. That wasn’t my point.

Helpimfalling · 05/03/2022 15:04

@Suzi888

I would report it. I’d have no qualms whatsoever, I’ve worked in benefits and in fraud for years.

It’s theft.

If people didn’t take the piss, people who really needed it would likely be able to have more. There would be more funding.

Can I ask you a question.

Somebody I know pays for private school,
With her universal credit child care costs.

Is this classed as fraud?

JTK392 · 05/03/2022 15:11

Tax avoidance schemes are a form of theft.

I don’t know what you mean by avoidance schemes. There are tax experts that advise on legal tax minimisation- not tax avoidance schemes. There’s no reason not to minimise personal taxes legally. It isn’t theft.

DontBeMean · 05/03/2022 15:13

I'd report it and I'd report other crimes. I'm honest and it pisses me off when other people aren't.
I'd much rather the money went to people who legitimately and legally need it.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/03/2022 15:14

It's not fraud to pay for private school with UC

It's unlikely someone on UC could afford private school though unless they were committing a fraud elsewhere - as UC is a subsistence benefit

vivainsomnia · 05/03/2022 15:15

That is a stereotype - I worked as a social worker and have seen the best of humanity and the worst. Of course there are those who claim benefit when they should not, but it is a cliche to assume they do this to buy drugs - please do not believe everything the Daily Mire tells you.
You clearly missed my point! I gave both extremes, drugs and buying food for kids to make the point. The reality of benefit fraud is a bit of anything there and in between.

Who gives anyone the right to judge where the line is between acceptable theft and unacceptable?

Why saying that stealing from an individual is different to stealing from the government? Any money taken is money that could go to someone who needs it. So yes, benefit fraud like any other fraud is similar to breaking into a house and taking from victims.

Sadly, people only care what is directly taken from them. The morality of stealing is not their problem as long as it doesn't impact on them directly.

Theunamedcat · 05/03/2022 15:16

I did but nothing was done person in question was getting the housing element for a place he no longer lived at (universal credit makes this easy as they pay it to you not the landlord) was living with someone claiming to live alone AND working cash in hand

Absolutely nothing happened same as when I reported them for driving with no tax/mot/insurance he even drove with no licence at one point some people are just golden and untouchable

girlmom21 · 05/03/2022 15:17

Somebody I know pays for private school,
With her universal credit child care costs.

No she doesn't. There's no way she could afford it.

vivainsomnia · 05/03/2022 15:18

Somebody I know pays for private school,
With her universal credit child care costs
If they don't lie and claim what they are entitled to, how can it be theft. Whether she should be entitled is a question of policy. It's another discussion.

woodhill · 05/03/2022 15:20

Yanbu op

Selma22 · 05/03/2022 15:24

@Ihopeyoulikemymuff

Two wrongs don't make a right. Of course I would report them. It's stealing.
I would report it.Some people have no shame.Benefits are there to help those in need not to afford luxuries for scroungers
Helpimfalling · 05/03/2022 15:41

@girlmom21

Somebody I know pays for private school, With her universal credit child care costs.

No she doesn't. There's no way she could afford it.

Yeah I find it hard to believe too!

But she pays some towards it. Rest she gets from uc.

Helpimfalling · 05/03/2022 15:42

@LaurieFairyCake

It's not fraud to pay for private school with UC

It's unlikely someone on UC could afford private school though unless they were committing a fraud elsewhere - as UC is a subsistence benefit

It's with the childcare costs. Not the actually uc.

Uc cover child care costs.

Elsiebear90 · 05/03/2022 15:46

I think a lot of benefit fraud is done simultaneously with tax evasion, I know a lot of people who are self employed and declare a very low salary to avoid tax and also in order to claim benefits. I don’t report them because tbh I cba and don’t want to get involved, but I think morally there’s nothing wrong with reporting someone.

Exhausteddog · 05/03/2022 15:54

Haven't RTFT but tax evasion always gets mentioned on benefit fraud threads.
But what about bankers
But what about Amazon
But what about tax evasion etc etc

As if it's either/or? You can't be annoyed about benefit fraud when Amazon/Starbucks etc are evading their taxes. is it nor possible to think both things are wrong...?
(Although I'm always intrigued how much personal/financial info posters seem to have on someone to be able to know for sure they are defrauding the benefit system)

RobertSmithsLipstick · 05/03/2022 15:59

How about claiming for a disability, and doing what is universally accepted.
Answering the questions as if it's your worst day?
Is that stealing?

If you find that you're then having a good few good days, should you contact them and say so?

Nightlystroll · 05/03/2022 16:03

@JTK392
I don’t know what you mean by avoidance schemes
Oh. Then it's difficult to discuss with you. If you want to learn about them, you could always read about them on the HMRC website?

Theunamedcat · 05/03/2022 16:06

UC is terrible for paying out on childcare there is no way it can be misappropriated you need receipts invoices proof of payment all in an acceptable format that is tracked by ofstead numbers and other numbers that they CHECK so either the school is complicit in fraud or they are lying

JTK392 · 05/03/2022 16:09

[quote Nightlystroll]@JTK392
I don’t know what you mean by avoidance schemes
Oh. Then it's difficult to discuss with you. If you want to learn about them, you could always read about them on the HMRC website?[/quote]
Yes, I did have a brief scan. Tax Avoidance isn’t always illegal. That might be more accurate. Not really much point to this conversation, is there?

LaurieFairyCake · 05/03/2022 16:09

I mean the private school could be a private nursery ? So it's totally fine to use UC childcare vouchers for that

Kazzyhoward · 05/03/2022 16:10

@JTK392

As a morality issue how do you feel about reporting people for benefit fraud?

If I’m going to be the morality police, I’d much much rather report people for tax evasion than benefit fraud.

Often people do both.
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 05/03/2022 16:12

Who gives anyone the right to judge where the line is between acceptable theft and unacceptable? most people have a moral compass, a single parent stealing from one of the major 4 supermarkets to feed their children doesn’t anger me. If only those who reported people could get as het up about, oh I don’t know the vast inequalities in our society or the amount of men who don’t pay for their children. Must sleep well moonlighting for hmrc.