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Original poster

Benefit Fraud

113 replies

SteveCampbell · 04/03/2022 23:56

Hi. I know this may be a touchy subject, but I've been thinking about this for a while and would like to know other people's opinions on this. As a morality issue how do you feel about reporting people for benefit fraud? I do have a specific scenario in mind, but I'd like to know, without any nuance, how you feel about reporting it in general.

OP posts:
JTK392 · 05/03/2022 11:34

I don’t agree that morally tax evasion is the same as benefit fraud. One is failing to pay a bill to the taxpayer and one is actively stealing from the taxpayer. Stealing seems like a worse crime to me than keeping money you have earned for yourself.

Have you been privy to the oh-so-burdensome to evade tax conversations? Or the excitement about (what is essentially) war profiteering? That is the morality that I hear bandied about in tax evasion conversations. The horrible burden of not being domiciled in the UK and trying to “sneak” in undetected so as not to spend too much time here. Evasion is theft. And money isn’t always so hard-earned, much of it is opportunistic at the expense of others, not to the proportional benefit of others.

worriedatthemoment · 05/03/2022 11:48

I wouldn't if someone was doing for a short while or the odd cash in hand , but yes if long term or making lots and claiming as that means less for those that need it really, tax evasion most would report as well if they knew but its often well hidden
But two wrongs don't make a right

worriedatthemoment · 05/03/2022 11:49

Also people say lying go get a couple of hundred , sometimes its 10's of thousands

worriedatthemoment · 05/03/2022 11:52

@nococoni how is it stooping low reporting someone for claiming £12000 in benefits they were not entitled too, thats not just a couple of hundred pounds
What if just 1/4 of people claiming did this ? You realise be more for people who need it if it wasn't claimed fraudulently

newardrobe321 · 05/03/2022 11:54

@Nightlystroll

I would report benefit fraud AND tax evasion. Both are wrong. I saw someone shoplifting and I reported them. And I also reported three people to the Immigration Office.

You sound like a nice person Confused

Bazinga007 · 05/03/2022 13:08

If I was 100 percent sure then I would report. It's not fair on everybody else and is theft.

Bunty55 · 05/03/2022 13:20

@Nightlystroll

I would report benefit fraud AND tax evasion. Both are wrong. I saw someone shoplifting and I reported them. And I also reported three people to the Immigration Office.
It's people like you who reduce my faith in human nature
Tee20x · 05/03/2022 13:24

@Nightlystroll

I would report benefit fraud AND tax evasion. Both are wrong. I saw someone shoplifting and I reported them. And I also reported three people to the Immigration Office.
Lovely
vivainsomnia · 05/03/2022 13:39

I think a lot of posters here are just complete hypocrites. Or benefit cheats themselves.

So if someone claim to be single when in a relationship to get extra and buy dope. That's ok because they should be entitled to a bit extra to cope with their difficult life.

Would you feel the same if they broke in your house, took your TV, cash, car and whatever else to buy themselves some dope? Or even food to feed their kids? You'd close your eyes and not report it to the police because they can do with a bit extra cash?

I very much doubt it. Theft is theft, whoever is doing it. I would report anyone committing theft, if I knew that's what they were doing for sure. It's not to me to decide what theft is acceptable and what isn't.

Tee20x · 05/03/2022 13:44

The argument that "theft is theft" doesn't make sense. So if you saw someone stealing a loaf bread or basic essentials you'd report them? What good would come of that and why would that make you feel any better about your own life.

Also, I don't see where you'd be in a position to know "all the details" of what someone is claiming and reasons why to be 100% sure that it's fraud, but not be close enough to be able to discuss this with them or speak to them first rather than just reporting them?

Far more important things going on in life than being a curtain twitcher reporting someone for claiming something they may/may not be entitled to.

vivainsomnia · 05/03/2022 13:49

Know100% is relative. I would say evidence rather than certainty. It's amazing what people revel when fraud has become normalised.

If I saw someone stealing bread in a shop, I would indeed tell the shop keeper.

I hate stealing. I hate even more people normalising it as.

As said, it's always ok when we steal from others, a different matter when people steal from you.

Is anyone here saying that they would report witnessing someone stealing their car if they left a note to say they desperately needing a car to take their kids to school?

Crazykatie · 05/03/2022 13:53

If I knew that someone was operating a scam that illegally was getting thousands then yes I would report them. Someone doing a few hours extra work, no.

RaininSummer · 05/03/2022 13:56

If I knew they were effectively living abroad and still claiming or working large cash in hand jobs without declaring it definitely. It costs the rest of us more in the end.

Tee20x · 05/03/2022 14:00

Again, someone breaking into your home is different to someone not declaring working a few extra hours. The two can't be compared. So I come back to the fact that "theft is theft" doesn't make sense.

NotNotNotMyName · 05/03/2022 14:04

If you are absolutely sure they are intentionally committing benefit fraud I’d report it. But be sure, only if you know the full circumstances.

Mischance · 05/03/2022 14:04

@vivainsomnia

I think a lot of posters here are just complete hypocrites. Or benefit cheats themselves.

So if someone claim to be single when in a relationship to get extra and buy dope. That's ok because they should be entitled to a bit extra to cope with their difficult life.

Would you feel the same if they broke in your house, took your TV, cash, car and whatever else to buy themselves some dope? Or even food to feed their kids? You'd close your eyes and not report it to the police because they can do with a bit extra cash?

I very much doubt it. Theft is theft, whoever is doing it. I would report anyone committing theft, if I knew that's what they were doing for sure. It's not to me to decide what theft is acceptable and what isn't.

That is a stereotype - I worked as a social worker and have seen the best of humanity and the worst. Of course there are those who claim benefit when they should not, but it is a cliche to assume they do this to buy drugs - please do not believe everything the Daily Mire tells you.

Frankly I would prefer a bit of benefit fraud to a break-in, as you have mentioned.

And, as I have said before, the benefits system is a nightmare spider's web and many people do not claim out of ignorance or inability to deal with the complexity - these are the people I worry about.

JTK392 · 05/03/2022 14:04

@Tee20x

Again, someone breaking into your home is different to someone not declaring working a few extra hours. The two can't be compared. So I come back to the fact that "theft is theft" doesn't make sense.
I agree, “theft is theft” doesn’t make sense.

Where is @SteveCampbell Hmm

Nightlystroll · 05/03/2022 14:10

@newardrobe321.
*You sound like a nice person

@Tee20x
lovely

Yes, I am. A nice, lovely, honest person. And if I saw either of you being robbed in the street, I'd do my best to help you and stop the perpetrator. You two on the other hand, would obviously just jog past the other.

@Bunty55
It's people like you who reduce my faith in human nature
By that I assume you wouldn't report people. Money doesn't just appear. It's finite. If someone's taking what they shouldn't have, they're depriving someone who should have. It's the same as insurance fraud. The rest of us pay for it. Why is stealing from the state OK but someone stealing from your granny or your kids is unacceptable? When actually stealing from the state is stealing from your granny or your kids. They lose state funded activities or resources because the money has gone elsewhere. And people like you are the first to complain about it.
It's people like you, who know the names of offenders, maybe people out robbing or DV abusers, who turn the other way and say it's not my business who undermine my faith in human nature.
Tax evasion and avoidance are theft. I'd report it. I don't feel guilty about reporting a shoplifter. And I'd report any employer who was sponsoring families to come to the UK and then getting their 15yo children to not go to school but work FT in a restaurant. And I did. The fact that you're happy with shoplifters and forcing children to work is shocking to me.

JTK392 · 05/03/2022 14:17

Tax evasion and avoidance are theft.
Tax avoidance isn’t theft.

On with your good self.

Nightlystroll · 05/03/2022 14:41

@JTK392

Tax evasion and avoidance are theft. Tax avoidance isn’t theft.

On with your good self.

Tax avoidance schemes are a form of theft. They are set up to on shaky ground to enable people to avoid paying their share of tax. And they know when they enter these schemes that that's the purpose. HMRC would not devote so much of their resources to closing them down if it were not the case.
Bunty55 · 05/03/2022 14:42

[quote Nightlystroll]@newardrobe321.
*You sound like a nice person

@Tee20x
lovely

Yes, I am. A nice, lovely, honest person. And if I saw either of you being robbed in the street, I'd do my best to help you and stop the perpetrator. You two on the other hand, would obviously just jog past the other.

@Bunty55
It's people like you who reduce my faith in human nature
By that I assume you wouldn't report people. Money doesn't just appear. It's finite. If someone's taking what they shouldn't have, they're depriving someone who should have. It's the same as insurance fraud. The rest of us pay for it. Why is stealing from the state OK but someone stealing from your granny or your kids is unacceptable? When actually stealing from the state is stealing from your granny or your kids. They lose state funded activities or resources because the money has gone elsewhere. And people like you are the first to complain about it.
It's people like you, who know the names of offenders, maybe people out robbing or DV abusers, who turn the other way and say it's not my business who undermine my faith in human nature.
Tax evasion and avoidance are theft. I'd report it. I don't feel guilty about reporting a shoplifter. And I'd report any employer who was sponsoring families to come to the UK and then getting their 15yo children to not go to school but work FT in a restaurant. And I did. The fact that you're happy with shoplifters and forcing children to work is shocking to me.[/quote]
It's people like you who would eat me for breakfast. Seriously I do not need the head fuck. Save the lectures for someone who gives a damn.
Have a very nice day

Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase · 05/03/2022 14:44

A lot of people who commit benefit fraud aren’t hard up at all. So by cheating the system they are using up funds that are intended for those in genuine need.

carmenitapink · 05/03/2022 14:44

@JTK392

As a morality issue how do you feel about reporting people for benefit fraud?

If I’m going to be the morality police, I’d much much rather report people for tax evasion than benefit fraud.

Why would you rather report for tax evasion than benefit fraud?

One is someone's money they've been told to
Handover toThe government.

One is something that doesn't belong to someone that they're wrongfully claiming
But not entitled to.

Both seem on par.

girlmom21 · 05/03/2022 14:45

You can't answer this question based on your morals without knowing the situation.

I know someone who never declared their financially abusive partner was living with them because she couldn't afford to run the household bills-wise on her own and the 25% council tax reduction helped.
His argument for not paying bills was because he wasn't on the rental agreement. They couldn't get him added to the rental agreement because of his credit history.

girlmom21 · 05/03/2022 14:48

@SRS29

OP I would...mass amount of jobs available...I pay a shit load of tax for these people to do nowt.....go for it x
How much tax do you pay? Enough to cover your kids education and the equivalent to private healthcare for your family?