My partner lies to me about his debt etc

[mummysept22]

Otherwise he is the most lovely, loyal husband and I know he will be a great dad to our child.

He is rubbish with money. I knew he was in debt when we got together 4.5 years ago and he never used to discuss it at all- he's very much a bury his head in the sand type guy. I have sat him down and worked things out with him so many times! I used to be terrible too and worked hard to get myself out of debt so I know a lot about it. But he never follows through with the plan. And is in the same situation. Loads of debts, defaulted and paying minimum £5 a month to some of them.

We sat down a few nights ago to sort things out again, we are expecting a child in September. We will have pots of money for each shared budget in a joint account. Then our own spending money. I have offered to combine our money and help him pay off his debts whilst we save. I earn slightly more than him, but obviously this will change when we have the baby, so I don't mind.

I asked him if he was completely honest. Today I opened a letter (I know- wrong!) and he has missed two payments. I knew there were more and he fessed up to two more before I would tell him what debt this was.
I think I know what your answers will be and I am scared.
But what should I do with him?! He says it will be different this time because our money is in a joint account now. And he will cut his cards up once we've paid them off.
Help!

My exh and his family lived on credit cards, his mother used to pay them off for her kids - not a good parenting skill.
When we moved in together & I found the letter hidden in his car stating the mortgage had not been paid for a couple of months - thats when the spending for him stopped. At this point we also had a young child. I was that woman that gave him pocket money for the week. This happened for a good few years. Try it @mummysept22 - he can't be trusted so you need to take the reins for your own sanity. Good luck.

I’ve been in a similar situation with DP. He lied and lied about money, I never knew how much debt he was in until I broke down and said I was leaving unless he sorted himself out.
He came clean - his debt was astronomical and far worse than even he thought it was (burying his head in the sand) after checking his credit file.
He entered into an IVA which means he physically can no longer apply for credit and this will last 6 years. It’s not for everyone and certainly will stop you being able to apply for a joint mortgage but it means you don’t have to think about the debt anymore. It will be paid off and each month the IVA company will collect the money and pay the creditors. It is also a legally binding contract so payments MUST be made.
In addition, I now manage all of the money and he has spending money in a personal account. His salary is sent to my account which is essentially used as a joint account (again not for everyone but works for us).

A challenging question perhaps, but why are you choosing to have a child with this man at this time?

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Otherwise he is the most lovely, loyal husband and I know he will be a great dad to our child.

Except for keeping secrets, being irresponsible, trying to blame you (your words) for his behaviour, not being arsed to even put in for expenses owed despite knowing he's in the shit financially and 'frittering away money on shit from Amazon.'

He doesn't sound that nice and he doesn't sound responsible or able to put other people at first when necessary... a pretty important attribute for a 'great dad' tbh.

As PP said, if feeling financially secure is important to you (as it should be) then being with a bloke like this is usually death by a thousand cuts.

It's not kind, loving or fair to be so irresponsible with money that you lie, gaslight and blame your partner. He does all that to you.

This. 100%. He’s neither nice, loyal, honest or even decent. He’s being devious, lying and evasive, deceitful is his norm. Do you honestly want to spend treat of your life trying to keep everything afloat while he really doesn’t give a damn? I’d be packing his bags and chucking him out, telling him to sort himself out. He’s a very skilled liar and he’s taking you for a mug because you love him.

Suppose you want to take total control of all finances and he says no. Or more likely, says yes and just takes out another secret loan. What then?

You are married so his debts is your debts. He could financially sink you both if the situation worsens. But will he ever change ? Maybe not. Maybe you should be in charge of all of his credit cards. Cut them up now (so literally take them off him). And start paying back as much as possible.

@mummysept22

He earns £50k a year, pays £400 towards his debts and £500 into savings. He should not be in this situation. It's so stressful. Not great at any time particularly during the early stages of pregnancy!

There is no point putting money into savings (especially now when the rates are poor) when he has debt. He should be throwing every penny possible at it. Whereas he's clearly actually still in the mindset of thinking "I earn a good salary, I should be able to spend what I want". Until that changes, no plan is going to work.

OP

Everyone is saying ' don't tie yourself to him, he's behaving like a child' and you come back with ' oh, what can I do!!!! I'll give him another plan and try to manage him even harder!!!'

YOU CANNOT FIX THIS FOR HIM!
What happens when he pretends to stick to the plan, but is secretly still spending?
And when he resents you - you said he already tried to blame you.
What happens when you and your children need to rely on him, but you can't?

HE has to sort himself out. There are plenty of charities out there. He could access them, but he doesn't want to.

Debt/ recurring debt/ lying was a huge reason why I ended my marriage.
You need to step back and let him find his own impetus to grow up. You can't do it for him.

There is no point putting money into savings (especially now when the rates are poor) when he has debt. He should be throwing every penny possible at it. Whereas he's clearly actually still in the mindset of thinking "I earn a good salary, I should be able to spend what I want". Until that changes, no plan is going to work.

Absolutely this.

He needs to start realising that being short on 'fun spends' for himself like frittering away money on Amazon isn't a punishment, it's a consequence.

Teenagers rally against punishments. Because they're young and haven't yet learned how to manage their impulses so make some bad decisions they learn from. On the way they moan about it being sooo unfair (most of us did anyway!) as they are navigating the world. Then they grow up and mature to varying degrees.

Adults don't see consequences as punishments. Well, sensible and decent adults don't, anyway. They accept the consequences of their actions because they should have learned to control their impulses especially if those impulses negatively affect other people aka you and his future child's financial security and stability.

He sounds like an immature dick OP. I'd not be combining finances with someone who has shown himself to be untrustworthy, able to lie to your face and also capable of blaming you for his behaviour.

He's done all of that to you. He isn't very loving, loyal and honest after all.

I know he will be a great dad to our child.

All I can say is do not underestimate what a significant factor the ability and willingness to be financially responsible is in being a great father.

My ex hid and wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars during my relationship with him, which I did not discover until near the end of it. My heart breaks when I think about the opportunities, experiences and security that he stole from our children through his wasteful and reckless spending.

Make him contact CAB. sometimes hearing how serious his situation really is strikes home when it's discussed with someone who knows the possible outcomes and isn't emotionally involved.

Also, I second what a pp said about nursery fees - if you're returning to work - you'll need to factor a huge cost into your financial planning. Our nursery fees eat up a large chunk of our cash - and we're relatively careful with costs. You need to have this sorted by the time you're shelling out £1000 per month for a nursery place.

Please don't rely on this man.

We do not have a formal joint account (I do not want to be associated with him yet) we are using a revolut account for our shared budgets which we both have access to.

This means you already are financially linked - as far as credit history goes

What is the money going on? Do you even know?

Chances are some kind of addiction, could be usual suspects (gambling, drink, drugs, gaming, prostitutes) or the less well known/recognised spending addiction

Unless and until he admits this and gets PROPER help for whatever it is you’re on a hiding to absolutely nothing!

Check his credit rating AND yours (he may well have run up debt in your name) not even slightly kidding

DO NOT go down the route of constantly bailing him out - that way destitution and madness lies!

Wow! And on £50k a year! Yes there’s some kind of addiction here I’ll bet

If there is this

Think of your child- holidays getting cancelled because ‘daddy spent the holiday fund again.’ Or you having to work loads of overtime

Is the very least of it! It’s also ccjs, bailiffs, losing your home or even thugs at your door!

@HoppingGreen I only know from perspective of being related to addicts if you are ok doing so I’d love to know if you’ve had help to get this part?

He just fritters it away on crap! I had to ban him from amazon at one point.

This sounds like a spending addiction

@PinkyRedRose is also right interest of debt is ALWAYS more than interest on savings. Always pay off debt before putting into savings. Martin Lewis and Mse site are fantastic

£300 for lunches at work, drinks out etc. that’s insane!!

Also so many takeaways is very unhealthy. You both must feel knackered and run down all the time!

think about him going to Debtors Anonymous

Do we finally have that in uk?! Great

Earlier this week we sat down and worked out a proper budget

Based on what? Because you say you can be poor at managing money too so if you’ve just done it yourself I don’t know how complete and correct it will be. Cab, Mse, stepchange etc have info on how to create a budget

I’m pretty good at managing a low income - I’ve had to be! I can only DREAM of £50k! But even I learned some tips from Mse.

To give you an idea of scale £300 is almost my rent!!

He's not defaulted for 2.5 years

Today I opened a letter (I know- wrong!) and he has missed two payments

Only one of these can be true

You could post an SOA (statement of affairs) on here or Mse (you could even name change and do a new thread for here if you wish)

A list of all income, outgoings monthly plus debt and savings.

It’s amazing how having everything laid out in black and white makes you see things clearly!

Also a really good idea (and these days even easier with us paying for so few things by cash) to go through your last months outgoings (my banking app lets you list all these in one click) collate all the “sections” - eg add up EVERYTHING you’ve spend on groceries and takeaways and similar - I’m betting you’ll get a shock!

Have you ever watched eat/spend well for less the reactions of the families when they’re told how much they’re spending a year?

Do that yourself and give yourselves a wake up call! When you realise that you’re (and I think this is actually possible) eg you’re spending £1000’s on takeaway coffees!

Personally I would advise you to:

Ditch ALL the credit cards

Clear any overdraft as I believe this is now an expensive form of debt too

Then get yourself a BASIC bank account each with NO overdraft facility some don’t even have it as an option to apply for it’s just a basic debit/cash card

Set a realistic budget - not too lax but not overly strict either. I for one would be more than happy to help with this.

Within that budget have a set amount for personal spends each WEEK (much easier to manage than a “windfall” once a month) and withdraw that AS CASH to the penny if necessary so pretty much literally “pocket money” and the rule is “once it’s gone it’s gone” no dipping into next weeks funds

PLAN what you’re doing not only household wise but socially and learn to not always say yes when invited out, if necessary have some stock “excuses”

Get professional help to address the mental/emotional issues as to why you’re (both) like this. Because they will be there.

There’s a lot to untangle it’s not just the financial aspects.

Again for scale you two are living on over £100k income per annum? So £7.5/8k per month? I’m living on less than £1600 a month!

@Graphista.

Great post.

do not marry this man or have joint finances - you marry him nd his debt becomes yours dont do it!

also buying a house together, re think this, his credit will be awful for the next 6 years if he has defaulted

Ok eg just ONE takeaway coffee a day - but only mon-Fri and not when on leave from work is £750 a year spent!

X 2 of you that's £1500 a year - that's a flipping holiday!

@pinkyredrose thank you

I’m sorry to say that you will never feel safe and secure until you leave him.

Where is his money going? Your house must be stuffed to the rafters if he's always buying stuff. Is there anything he can sell?

He brings home around £2700 to £3k pm depending on pension contributions and whether he has student loan repayments.

You say he pays £400 to debts, £500 to savings and has £300 spending money, which is huge and I'm surprised if it was accepted if he's on a formal debt management arrangement, which normally only allows minimal personal spending money, more like £50 pm.

Where does the other £1500 to £1800 go. Surely that's not all household essentials?

Have you seen his credit file? How much does he owe? Is his debt actually going down at a decent rate and how long does he expect to get out of debt? How is he paying his debts? Debt management plan or another arrangement? Is all his debt included? No sneaky (horrendously expensive) overdrafts or credit cards?

Agree with the others. Life with him is always going to be a battle if he doesn't buck his ideas up.

I always find threads like this really depressing - where the woman is essentially having to solve the man's problems.

You see it all the time at a societal level too. Little caretakers/mummies to sort out their crap.

Fuck that shit.

Grahista
No I haven’t had any external help and I can’t explain why things seem so different now. I would hand on heart say I would never do it again but I have said that before.
I think it was the prospect of being old and poor, I like my lifestyle now and I wouldn’t want a massive change once we are no longer as marketable as we are now. Having a concrete aim for retirement has made a massive difference I think.

Yet another thread where the OP explains what a wonderful partner and father her bloke is, how he loves her so much etc. etc. and then every posts paints a picture of the absolute opposite - a lying, immature loser who treats her with contempt

OP you and your child deserve more than this, I hope this thread shows you that. This man will drag you and your child down with him if you let him. It’s one thing being in debt but having learned a lesson and paying it off responsibly but the lying and getting angry with YOU over it, that’s unacceptable. And nothing you have said indicates that he has learned his lesson or changed his ways and taken control of his finances which just means that every time you bust a gut to pay it off, he will be racking it up again.

This has to come from him and it just sounds like it isn’t at this point. He isn’t there yet and you can’t force him to be so for goodness sake protect your own interests and keep everything 100% separate. Also accept that when you eventually split over this you will be highly unlikely to see any financial support from him for your child. Personally it would be a deal breaker for me with a baby on the way and I would walk but that’s a decision only you can make and you sound remarkably laid back all things considered.

How are you today OP?

Id suggest speaking to a company like stepchange, it will ruin his credit for a few years, but no worse than him missing payments.

His debt has obviously got out of control and he needs help, they are very reasonable in what they request each month.

@pinkyredrose thanks for checking in 😊 I am doing much better thank you!

We've come up with a plan, he is going to pay off £1400 a month and by doing so he should be debt free by the end of the year 😀 he has accepted £300 pocket money is too much and has agreed to live on less than half that. We have made many changes as a couple- shopping at lidl/aldi instead of waitrose/Sainsbury's, buying in the odd supermarket curry instead of takeaways (someone here gave me that great tip- thanks!). He will take his lunch to work and make his own coffee instead of buying etc. All little things but they add up!! I am going to save over £1000 a month so together with what I have already saved will have more than enough for a years maternity leave and some left over for a deposit. I am still concerned that a mortgage in my name only will mean I can only borrow around £300k - you can't get much for that where I live. But for now we will keep saving and get ourselves in a better position. Maybe we move? We were going to get married before the baby comes in September but I have told him I am not going to do this until he is debt free and saving.

He knows this is serious and absolutely make or break. I truly believe this is the start of our new life!

Thank you for all your advice and support X