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Concerned that my pension pot is on the lower end of what it should be...

288 replies

hyperbole001 · 04/07/2021 12:23

I'm 36 and have to be honest, I haven't given a great deal of thought to my pension. I probably started paying into one from 2009 onwards, but have had various jobs over the course of my employment history, and until recently hadn't put any effort into trying to track them down. Naively, I had assumed that the govt would be able to do this by simply using my NI number but doesn't seem to be a straightforward as that.

Anyway, from those I've been able to track down and have contacted, I've estimated that my pot is currently sat at around £26k. Does this see on the low side for my age, and should I be consciously trying to increase my contributions?

OP posts:
JoveWhenHeSawMyFannysFace · 07/07/2021 18:39

You can open one cash ISA/LISA and one stocks and shares ISA/LISA in the same year I think. So you can't open an S&S ISA and and S&S LISA in the same year.

Not quite - you can’t open two cash ISAs or two S&Ss ISAs in the same year, but you could open a S&S ISA and S&S LISA (or cash ISA & LISA) in the same year. It’s the overall amount that’s restricted.

You can transfer up to £4,000 p.a. from an ISA to a LISA and would get the Government bonus, but it can be complicated, If you’ve already maxed out your ISA allowance this year, you can only transfer if you’ve got ISA savings from previous year(s) - the link below explains better than I can:

www.youinvest.co.uk/lifetime-isa/transferring-into-a-lifetime-isa

Iamthewombat · 07/07/2021 20:21

I just looked up ‘gratuity’ in relation to pensions, and I learned something. Every day a school day on here. A gratuity (not in the U.K.) is an alternative term for a tax free lump sum on retirement, provided by the scheme you are a member of, in addition to the annual pension you have accrued.

hyperbole001 · 08/07/2021 12:26

So seems if I've already maxed out the 20k allowance in a stocks and shares ISA, that I can't then open a LISA?

OP posts:
shivawn · 08/07/2021 12:48

I'm another one who is aiming for the 30k a year pension to live off in retirement! I don't actually think its an awful lot but think it'll be enough to be relatively comfortable. I'd aim higher but I plan on retiring early (don't want to be nursing past 60). I'm lucky to have an Irish public servant pension and I top it up with €250 AVC's every month.

Mia85 · 08/07/2021 12:58

OP - I think you can open a LISA but not pay new money into it this tax year. You can transfer into it if the provider will allow you to.

hyperbole001 · 08/07/2021 15:46

@Mia85

OP - I think you can open a LISA but not pay new money into it this tax year. You can transfer into it if the provider will allow you to.
Would there be any real point in doing this?
OP posts:
Mia85 · 08/07/2021 16:26

A PP said you can get the government bonus from a transfer in so if that is possible it is well worth doing.

MistySkiesAfterRain · 08/07/2021 16:39

You really need to read up on it as its not uncomplicated! I think internet forums are great but don't rely on us randoms.

ForensicAccountant · 08/07/2021 21:09

www.findpensioncontacts.service.gov.uk/

Haven’t read all posts so may have been mentioned already.

OneMoreHobnobPlease · 09/07/2021 20:03

Some of these figures are eye-watering (to me) and it induces the (lack of) financial security anxiety I experience.

Some of us who can't even go out and earn an income, but are lucky enough to have a little extra but not enough to justify an ISA and charges who have young people with extra needs, don't even have the luxury of paying as much as they want into their pension, as there's a limit of £2880.00 pa!

There's also years where spare money isn't even a thing, due to being in a self-employed household where income isn't guaranteed (catch 22!)

I've already started living off smaller amounts and 'doing without' in the hope I get used to it sad, I know!

HandlebarLadyTash · 09/07/2021 20:10

State pension needs to be a cost of living pension.

WombatChocolate · 09/07/2021 21:37

Interesting seeing what people are aiming for.

I think some people find it difficult to imagine their likely costs of living in retirement compared to today whilst working, paying mortgages and paying families. So often those with above average salaries and perhaps a household income of around £75k-£100k imagine they will need at least £30k each or £60k in retirement.

However, people forget a number of factors which help explain why people need less in retirement and why that Which figure of £26k for a comfortable retirement for a couple is actually enough. These figures are based on the following assumptions (won’t hold true for lots, for those who’ve had professional jobs and bought property a couple of decades ago, they could well hold true)

  • mortgage already paid off
  • children basically financially independent
  • some level of savings

The basic cost of living and running a house is not as much as you think. Much of our salaries when working go on things we will no longer pay;

  • tax and national insurance (probably won’t be feee if it altogether but most won’t pay higher rate tax nor nearly so much)
  • pension contributions - saves several hundred for most people per month

Paying bills, some maintenance and feeding yourself can be done more cheaply (even when not looking to live frugally) than many imagine….and often they’ve never calculated what they spend on these and might be surprised how little it actually is in relation to their working income. So then people want some money to put aside for replacing the car, household maintenance and things that crop up and cost a lot. And then in early retirement they want to be spending on travel and hobbies etc. Given people can travel at cheaper times of year and are flexibilie, an awful lot of travelling can be done cheaper than people imagine.

And it is true, that spending fluctuates across a retirement. People often spend a lot on travel in the first 10 years or until around 75 ish. There might be care requirements in later 80s or 90s, but decent pensions can usually provide for care at home and if you need care in a nursing home, you’d likely be looking at selling property anyway. To be honest, getting to grips with the fact this is a reality if you need carehome care for a sustained period, rather than you will be able to fund it and preserve your property as inheritance for your kids, is a big leap into reality most families need to take…rather than imagining leaving an expensive property to kids is always going to be possible.

So, having looked into pensions a lot, I am of the view, that a couple with £30k post tax (£2.5k per month) can be very comfortable indeed. Lots of people can generate that from perhaps 60 or early 60s and once their state pension kicks in (£18k for a couple if full amount payable to each) then you’re looking at extremely good pension income.

Targeting a private pension of £30k each for a couple, really isnt needed for a comfortable retirement which will deliver and find plenty of fun and travel. Of course, if you can have £60k between you from private pensions, that’s great, but a much lower target is achievable and will deliver a good life for many more.

For those with decent pensions, often the big question is instead about stopping work when they want to, and bridging the gap between any early pension payout and the increasingly late time lots now pay out..ie state retirement age.

I plan to stop work at about 55/57. I won’t take any pension until 60, but my DH will fund us both for that period. At 60, I will take the part of my final salary pension that pays out at 60. That will give us about £15k per year, plus the pension lump sum and some other ISAs and SIPPs we can draw on, will allow my DH to stop work and fund us with about £2.5k post tax for 5 years, until my DHs defined benefit pension also starts paying out. At 67/8 we will each get full state pensions plus the other parts of our defined benefits pensions which pay at state retire,ent age. At that point, we will certainly be in the luxury category.

So, for those doing okay with their pension provision, now start thinking about when ou might like to or want to stop work. Everyone is diffeeenf and affordability is key but also how much you love your work and your feelings about health etc. For me, it’s really important to stop mid to late 50s. It a luxury to be able to do so, but I’ve had family survive one year after retiring at 60 and I’ve done my sums so I can afford to stop and I’d rather have the time and a slightly lower pension, than work another 5-10 years and have more. There’s no right answer is there.

Things that have helped me with this is the fact that both DH and myself are in public sector pensions, with lots of years of final salary service. We also prioritised paying off mortgage and became mortgage free soon after 40 so have been able to save. Neither of these might be possible for those 10-15 years younger. But neither of us earn loads and have never quite reached being higher tax payers, but by plodding away, now know we can stop work in later 50s.

Planning is important. Knowing how much living in retirement costs and what your pension pot currently is, your state forecast etc all helps. Do look at the Which Guide with suggested figures for single and couples - it helps get a sense of what living in retirement costs.

And yes, some might have £30k each in a private pension and then the full state pension to come too, meaning a gross household retirement income of about £78k, but it’s far from unusual and not anyway near necessary for a usual kind of comfortable and very happy retirement. People looking at those figures either need to point out that they realise they aren’t the norm or needed, even for retirement with plenty of fun and travel, or to consider that perhaps they aren’t actually needed.

Stuffin · 10/07/2021 06:02

I agree with WombatChocolate

We have sat down and worked out all the bills that will remain in retirement, added on contingency and some fun money. It is much much lower than our salaries but that is because we are putting lots into the pensions to retire early.

Some of those bills will be cheaper as we won't need the same level e.g. I need a stable broadband for work so reluctant to change to save money. Food can be cheaper as we can go to the supermarket regularly and shop more frugally for what's on offer. Less petrol costs and we have also started saving for our last cars.

We are now in the process of analysing with our IFA exactly the level of drawdown (no big public pensions here) that is comfortable when we retire in a few years time. We could retire at a conservative amount per year easily but we don't actually want to die with lots left but equally we don't want to run out of money. And having watched elderly relatives it is doubtful that we would be travelling long haul in our 70s due to health and if not health insurance costs so plan to spend a bit more early on and then less later in retirement.

shivawn · 10/07/2021 08:22

However, people forget a number of factors which help explain why people need less in retirement and why that Which figure of £26k for a comfortable retirement for a couple is actually enough.

I think most people surely have enough common sense to factor in that their mortgage will hopefully be paid off and they won't have childcare fees? Fair play to any elderly couple that can be comfortable on £26k a year between them, maybe if you've been naturally frugal all your life its okay but people aiming for a higher pension are probably used to a better standard of living. We have no children and a tiny mortgage and we would be very miserable on that now. I would hate to be forced to be so frugal in old age. That's not very far off our Irish state pension here (€26k/£22k) and no one wants to be relying on that.

Stuffin · 10/07/2021 08:33

@shivawn

However, people forget a number of factors which help explain why people need less in retirement and why that Which figure of £26k for a comfortable retirement for a couple is actually enough.

I think most people surely have enough common sense to factor in that their mortgage will hopefully be paid off and they won't have childcare fees? Fair play to any elderly couple that can be comfortable on £26k a year between them, maybe if you've been naturally frugal all your life its okay but people aiming for a higher pension are probably used to a better standard of living. We have no children and a tiny mortgage and we would be very miserable on that now. I would hate to be forced to be so frugal in old age. That's not very far off our Irish state pension here (€26k/£22k) and no one wants to be relying on that.

The key is to maximise pension investments as much as you can.

But the key for me is that continuing to work longer to get that big pension figure is all well and good but having seen relatives ill health and death resulting in no fancy holidays or high standard of living has changed my perspective that actually I am happier to retire earlier on less than take the gamble to work longer. I am also not waiting for retirement to go on the long haul holidays just incase I can't for health reasons or find cost of travel insurance restrictive because as soon as you have medical conditions it pushes the premiums up a lot. Therefore my holiday expenditure will actually decrease in retirement.

shivawn · 10/07/2021 08:46

@Stuffin Oh I agree and I'm also planning to retire early. Not putting anything off until retirement either, until covid came we were doing a lot of long haul travelling and hopefully will be able to start again next year. I would hope that we will continue to travel in retirement and will probably pay more for convenience and as you said travel insurance at that age. No way to know what health will be like, retirement is a long way in the future for us but can only hope for the best.

SantaMonicaPier · 10/07/2021 08:51

I'm aiming for £40k in retirement, to include the state pension. I started my pension at 22 and am on track for this on early retirement at 62 if I continue on the same salary or higher. Your employer contributions can make an absolutely massive difference to the pot and that's why I'm in a good position comparatively speaking.

WombatChocolate · 10/07/2021 09:00

Shivam, you’d be surprised how little financial planning many people have engaged with. If we asked everyone on this thread, on the basis of their gross income whilst working, how much goes on;

  • mortgage
  • food
  • utilities
  • subscriptions
  • leisure
  • holidays
  • income tax
  • national insurance
  • savings/investments
  • workplace pension
  • private pension
  • any debt payments

Most people woukd struggle to give you accurate figures for all of these. In particular many don’t know how much goes on tax, national insurance and pension. Although most will still pay some tax in retirement it will be less, and many people will save many thousands per month once not paying so much national insurance and pension contributions. That’s why they need less than they imagine, in relation to their working salary. Many people forget to factor in those savings…..the mortgage and childcare costs might be more obvious but people forget the tax savings and pension input.

And secondly, this thread is about those who feel their pension pot might fall short. It is absolutely right, that many people’s pot will fall short and many don’t realise the amount needed in a pot to draw down £20k per year or the even bigger amount to buy an index linked annuity. They do need to look into it all more and get a plan in place. BUT at the same time, people with perfectly good provision can get anxious too. This thread should be able to help them too, to realise that good provision is simply that….and not be deciding that pension provision which might be available only to the very wealthy, is what is needed ir normal. That’s not helpful when most will never achieve that level, nor do they need it to live comfortably in a normal sense with plenty of lesidure.

Shivam, you might have a very high standard of living now. Great. You might aspire to an extremely high standard of living in retirement and be able to fund it. Great. But many people will achieve a very good standard with those figures of £26k-£30k per couple. It really important people know that too, rather than thinking they need to achieve £50k to keep the wolves from the door.

It is hard for people to visualise. If you currently earn a decent wage, of perhaps £45k (decent but not spectacular) then it can be hard to imagine that a £20k private pension (remembering there will be state pension too) is actually very good. People see £20k and talk of ‘only’ having £20k forecasted ….but they are thinking of having £20k NOW when they need to pay pension contributions and national insurance etc etc. £20k really does go a long way in retirement. It’s still a pipe dream for many many who will never get anywhere near it, but a good number are closer to it than they think, especially with state pension too, and that should give them some confidence to start planning and looking forward to retirement.

If you need far in excess of this and can find it, brilliant for you. However, recognising this isn’t the norm for a comfortable retirement or necessary, in the terms that ‘comfortable’ is applied to the majority of the population, woukd also be helpful.

WombatChocolate · 10/07/2021 09:02

*Sorry, should have said most will save many hundreds per month on pension payments, tax and national insurance…..not thousands. In itself though, this could easily give a typical earner more than £6k extra per year to play with in retirement,eat compared to when working.

Cocomarine · 10/07/2021 10:05

@3luckystars

I don’t think so. I’m in Ireland, maybe gratuity has a slightly different meaning with regards to pensions here. The word means nothing to me. Sorry if you think I should not post on this thread, I didn’t think it mattered where we were from. Apologies if I wasted anyone’s time, but I am very grateful to anyone who helped me understand what a pot is.
It’s not that anyone thinks you SHOULDN’T post, just that on a thread where most forum members are covered by one set of pension legislation, it doesn’t make any sense to post questions about your pension without saying that you’re from another country.
WombatChocolate · 10/07/2021 10:59

Shivawn 'Fair play to any elderly couple who can be comfortable on £26k per year'

Just to point out that the £26k figure is used by WHICH magazine after extensive pensions research into what is a reasonably affluent demographic. The AVIVA pension website and the government MoneyWise we sites use very similar figures for comfortable retirement for a couple. Theses are based on extensive research by ones ion experts. £26k is not committing a couple to a life of penury and misery. It honestly is sufficient to cover a comfortable retirement which includes things like replacing cars every few years, some holidays and a good amount of leisure activities.

The fact people cannot imagine living on £26k shows again how much of our salary goes in tax, pension and national insurance and how it strikes many that £26k must be starvation rations.

Of course, a number of people have far in excess of that in retirement. The WHICH site suggests around £42k is needed per couple for luxury retirement, which includes a range of long haul regular trips, new cars every couple of years and new kitchen/bathrooms every 10-15 years. Even then, this is just £21k per person and bearing in mind many can get full state pension, less than £15k needed in private pension per head.

Again, many earning in excess of £100k household income whilst working cannot imagine living on 42k....but they would find they were far better than imagine in retirement on such a figure.

Just saying this stuff, not to knock those with big plans and provisions for retirement....brilliant for you guys......but to show those with decent, but more achievable goals for many, that actually that £26k can be pretty good and far better than £26k as a salary when so much comes off in national insurance, pension etc.

hyperbole001 · 10/07/2021 12:22

This thread has been so helpful. My earlier post of wanting a 30k pension was clearly a blind guess based on nothing more than current salary...

My current monthly cost of living is £1100 - this includes mortgage, bills, groceries and subscriptions (yes I have a spreadsheet which I keep updated). Given it's likely I'll be mortgage free by retirement, I really shouldn't need more than £1500 a month to live fairly comfortably. I should be entitled to state pension by the time I retire, and with that in mind, really and truly, aiming for a £14-15k private pension I think for me would be doable, and would afford me added luxuries that fall outside of the cost of living. So yeah, my 30k estimate was clearly uninformed.

For info, I've reached out to SAUL to get an idea of what my current pot looks like, and yesterday a previous employer confirmed that one of my pots are with Scottish Widows, so I've reached out to them too. Slowly but surely, I should be able to track most of them down.

I may look to consolidate some of them and maybe move into a Vanguard SIPP. I think this is a better option than NEST which is the current provider I make contributions too (they were also the provider at my previous employers too).

OP posts:
hyperbole001 · 12/07/2021 10:45

@Vetyveriohohoh

Sorry £1.5-2k per year
So USS has got back to me (seems I transferred from SAUL to USS in 2012, though I have no recollection of this!) and I've managed to log into their online site.

I have built up the following:

an annual income of £1935
one off payment of £5,805.33

So not too far off what a few of you suggested. Overall, I'm quite happy with that. Per my previous post, I want to aim for an overall pension income of £15-20k, and I'll up my monthly contributions to around £400 a month (currently £300 a month inc employers contribution).

OP posts:
bumnote · 12/07/2021 11:04

This thread isn't clear whether the amounts you're specifying are your total pension pot amounts or your expected annual income!

hyperbole001 · 12/07/2021 13:16

My USS pension is a defined benefit pension, the others are not.

OP posts:
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