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Original poster

Employment Advice please

88 replies

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:04

Work are calling me in for a disciplinary on Friday?!! Apparently I'm bullying?! Its a load of crap there, they're just trying to get rid of staff cos the market isn't too good at the moment and I think they are losing money with so many employees. They've already fired 7 people who were on probationary periods so now they're resorting to bullying the others out of their jobs (They've brought the same things against 2 others who have just handed their notices in instead) obviously I can't what with being pregnant.

What I want to know is, if I don't get fired on Friday can I legally ask to go on my mat leave straight away? Also if I do get fired have I got a case for unfair dismissal?

OP posts:

Blackduck · 29/10/2007 13:06

Get hold of your HR procedures ASAP.....Check what procedures have to be followed.

ellehcim · 29/10/2007 13:08

How pregnant are you? How long have you been employed there? Have they sent you a letter regarding the disciplinary hearing?

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:09

I'm nearly 32 weeks preg and yes I've got a letter.

OP posts:

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:10

They would have to have documented evidence of your 'bullying' from your 'victims' in order to bring a case like this. If it's your first disciplinary then I don't think they would be able to fire you - unless you've committed gross misconduct; fraud/ theft, physical violence etc. You are entitled to take another member of your choice into any disciplinary hearing with you.

Phone ACAS with all your documents, they give great advice.

If you have genuinely done nothing wrong and can get other staff members to defend you then you can take them to an IT - if they are that desperate to get rid of people then why don't they make them redundant - sounds a bit fishy to me.

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:11

member of staff

Kewcumber · 29/10/2007 13:12

They have to document teh case against you - written note setting out the allegation and the basis for it. You have the statutory right of appeal.

They ought to suspecd you on full pay whilst they are investigating the claims/hearing your appeal.

If you can show that they have tried this on several other people I think your case for unfair dismissal would probably be easier. You aren't in a union are you?

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:13

I don't want to take another member with me cos that seems to be to be admitting defeat. I personally don't think there is anything I have done other than using work computers to send internal emails which I've gladly admitted to.

They have put on the bottom of my letter that this can result in summary dismissal.

OP posts:

Kewcumber · 29/10/2007 13:17

Unless your email use was excessive or pornographic etc I can't see that would result in instant dismissal. Also I would expect the bullying to be discussed in more depth than just instant dismissal. If it were a genuine case you should be given a chance to change your behaviour.

I would consider taking someone with you if there is someone you trust and tell them what you think is happening beforehand. It will at least make sure your employer knows you are taking it seriously. You should clearly tell tehm which bits you diagree with and state that you beleive that this is a method of bullying you out of the company so that the company do not have to pay your maternity pay (if thats the case)

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:17

It's generally safer to take someone else with you IMO, but your call obviously - if anything, it proves to them that you know your rights and they are less likely to try to get away with something which is against employment law

What exactly are they saying about the 'bullying' - what are you alleged to have done?

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:21

acas

disciplinary procedures

Have a trawl through these and make sure that they have obeyed the law 'to the letter', gen yourself up before the hearing so that you can defend yourself.

flowerybeanbag · 29/10/2007 13:21

Jenswish do take someone with you - at the very least they can take notes for a clear record of the conversation, so you don't have to worry about that and can concentrate on what you need to say.
Have a read of this about what unfair dismissal is, and
this about statutory disciplinary procedures so you know what your employer must do (assuming you have a year's service?).

Impossible to say whether you'd have a case for unfair dismissal without knowing more. With regard to your maternity leave query, you can change when you start your maternity leave but you need to give 28 days notice.

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:21

I don't know exactly. Something to do with an email I sent to a colleague (one of the ones who's handed her notice in) they think I was bullying another person even though I've never had a problem with this other person just with the fact that she had special treatment. A fact I made them aware of before all this happened.

If I go into the meeting telling them I think they are trying to bully people out are they not more likely to fire me?

OP posts:

ScaremyVile · 29/10/2007 13:23

Taking someone with you is not admitting defeat. You could be too stressed by the situation to fully take on board everything that is said - another person would be very helpful in this aspect. Union rep would be ideal but if not then another member of staff you trust.
Has this bullying allegation come out of the blue or is the culmination of an ongoing issue?

Kewcumber · 29/10/2007 13:24

I think they need to be more specific than that to fire you!

Also I wasn;t suggesting that you claim they are bullying everyone out just make your point that you feel that they are trying to bully you into resigning and that you don;t accept any of the charges, throwing in how concerned you are that the stress will have an adverse effect on your pregnancy is always worth documenting.

Kewcumber · 29/10/2007 13:24

I think they need to be more specific than that to fire you!

ScaremyVile · 29/10/2007 13:25

Dont go in throwing allegations around - deal factually with the issues that are put to you.

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:26

Its completely out of the blue thats what's confused me. I don't know who I could take with me to be honest, the only person I can think of has already handed her notice in so surely that's no good.

I'm not enjoying the situation as I still have to come into work normally and do what they want but I can't help feeling stressed and unable to work cos of it! Its annoying. I'm a good worker (we have targets here and I've never missed one) and I'm a nice person!

OP posts:

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:26

You don't go in saying that...

I think they should have provided you with a comprehensive written complaint of everything that is to be raised at the meeting so read through and write down your response to the allegations. Don't give them any more info than you have to and don't lose your cool. Listen to what they say and take someone with you to make notes of what is discussed (there should be an impartial scribe there anyway).

Don't agree anything until you have spoken to ACAS following the hearing.

flowerybeanbag · 29/10/2007 13:26

Jenswish I wouldn't focus on what they are or are not doing to other people tbh. Concentrate on addressing the particular allegations that have been made against you, don't get drawn into mud-slinging, however tempting.
They are not going to fire you because you say they are bullying other people but I don't think saying it will help you particularly. Try and remain as calm as possible, make sure you and/or the person you take in take lots of detailed notes of what happens, then if you do get dismissed, you will have the right of appeal assuming you have been there a year, and you can take it from there.

Kewcumber · 29/10/2007 13:28

you can still take the person you want to if she is still employed there.

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:29

There is no way on this earth that I would ever have involved a pregnant woman in a disciplinary unless I had absolutely no choice - it's a minefield. I would suggest that the HR dept doesn't know what the hell it's doing, is the HR manager up to date on employment law?

Definitely agree with admitting it is causing you unnecessary stress and it's affecting your pregnancy, you could even involve your GP.....

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:35

There is no HR manager. It's the office manager and company owners that have brought this up.

I've got MW apt tomorrow so might speak to them and see what they say about stress. I've been getting realy pains in my abdomen lately (which could very well be Braxton hicks) but I'm worried it isn't if you know what I mean.

Will sit down tonight and write everything down.

OP posts:

flowerybeanbag · 29/10/2007 13:35

What Wisteria said 13.29, have to be absolutely insane to put a pregnant woman through a disciplinary unless there was an issue that was serious enough to warrant being addressed immediately. Which an allegation of bullying might be.
Not saying they are right in this instance of course, but if there was an extreme case of bullying it would not be fair on the person being bullied not to address it appropriately just because the other person is pregnant - the bully might be around for weeks and the person being bullied could end up bringing some sort of case themselves. Minefield though, and if it were that serious Jenswish would have been suspended immediately I would imagine. And if there was something which really really needed addressing immediately I would expect people to be horizontal on the floor through bending over backwards to get everything absolutely right, which they are not doing.

And yes, have a chat with GP and get yourself signed off with stress in the interim - no point putting baby/your health at risk.

Wisteria · 29/10/2007 13:43

Exactly, she'd have to have made direct threats or similar to the other person and from what she's said, the most she has done is send an email to someone saying she thought this person may be getting special treatment. If as you say, she had bullied someone to the degree that a formal disciplinary hearing was necessary for a 32 weeks pregnant employee then she would already have been asked to stay away.

By Friday you could easily know more than this office manager about employment law by the sounds of it!

Unless there is more to it than you have said (previous blemishes on your file for instance)I can't see how they can legally have any grounds for dismissal, stand your ground and good luck x

Original poster

Jenswish · 29/10/2007 13:45

Thanks guys.

There is nothing on my file, I'm a good girl and unless there's something there that they've never mentioned to me then I can't see how they can fire me either.

I'm looking forward to the end of the day and mat leave.

OP posts:

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