Help - how do I stop my elderly father from being continually scammed?

[Jjcrackers]

My DF is 83 and clearly getting signs of dementia. He keeps getting scammed. The latest one this week was someone ringing him up and saying he had money in shares from years ago. It was very sophisticated - professional websites, contact with people who had 'been paid' (red flag immediately). He was very seduced. I told him to ignore the calls today and I would find the evidence that it was a scam. When I called him this afternoon he said they'd been on the phone and paid them £3k to release the shares.

I am sat here in tears.

I know it is too late - that money is gone, but how can we stop this from happening again? My DS and I have power of attorney in the event of his death. Is there any way we can get this while he is living? He is a very proud man so it will be a difficult conversation but something needs to be done.

set his phone so only recognised numbers can call
not sure of details but possible

Ok so start with his bank. They should not be authorising that money if he has dementia. Have you contacted Age Uk?

I would contact the bank immediately to see if anything can be done to get his money back.

How did he pay?

Power of attorney is for the living not the dead... so you can act on his behalf and speak to his bank etc. I would do that as first step.

Also see what you can do with systems to stop calls getting through unless from recognised numbers like you and family etc?

I'm so sorry this has happened to your father, we've had the same with a relative, and I worry that it is still happening but he's too ashamed to tell us. Males over 65 are the most likely group to be scammed.

It might be possible to get the money back, even if it was a bank transfer. Speak to the bank, they should be doing checks on unusual activity. If they're not helpful go to the FOS.

Get your dad's number changed. He'll probably think it's a lot of fuss but it's the only way to stop this happening.

That’s heartbreaking.

I saw a programme recently & they said that once a scammer has been successful they sell the details on as the target is known to hand over money! Can you unplug the phone/change the number until you can get something organised?

Anything helpful here?
www.romaincoleman.co.uk/dementia/how-to-protect-relatives-with-dementia-from-financial-fraud-or-abuse/

www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/reports-and-publications/reports-and-briefings/safe-at-home/rb_oct17_scams_party_conference_paper_nocrops.pdf

Following as I am in a similar position with my DM. I have Power Of Attorney but she is still in the process of being assessed for dementia. I also suspect she would still be considered to have capacity even though her judgement is really poor.

How horrible for you. Contact your local Trading Standards. Some have scam buster teams that will fit devices to your DF's phone to prevent scam calls. Quite often, once a person has fallen for one scam, their name gets passed to others scammers (known as a suckers list) horrible term, I know. And yes to contacting the bank. Look up Banking Protocol. Bank staff can sometimes prevent transfers when the customer is elderly or suffering dementia. Good luck OP

Scratch off the three digit number on the back of any bank cards.

www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/property-financial-affairs

Send the bank the copy of the poa (assuming it is property and financial affairs?)

I think you are a bit confused, power of attorney over money, and a separate one for medical matters apply when your father is alive. After his death,you follow his will instructions probate etc.

Argos sell call blocker phones, you can enter all his family and friends numbers so they still get through. The scammers will just hang up.
Definitely notify his bank that's he's vulnerable.

Power of attorney in event of death? Are you sure about that?

I power of attorney usually means you have an agreement to manage the affairs of some of who can't manage their own - not a dead person. A living person who is ill or incapacitated.

Is this a legal agreement you drew up? If so, speak to the solicitor who helped you.

@goatyogawithphil

Following as I am in a similar position with my DM. I have Power Of Attorney but she is still in the process of being assessed for dementia. I also suspect she would still be considered to have capacity even though her judgement is really poor.

@goatyogawithphil

You can still use your POA even if she still has capacity, depending on what it is you need to do?

POA is for when the person in question is still alive but unable to handle their affairs, op. You need to clarify things with your dad's solicitor.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply

I think I am getting confused over Power of Attorney. We have signed papers but it must be in the event he loses his faculties i.e dementia. He is getting signs but is refusing to go to the doctors. I will speak to his solicitor

I will get on to his bank immediately.

I think the best thing is to get all numbers changed.

He is a very proud man and perhaps the only good that will come of this is that we can force a conversation.

How did he pay them? It's definitely worth pursuing with his bank, they may well be able to help.

Everyone else has told you that you're either mistaken about the POàor using the wrong term Look into getting one set up ASAP

I am not sure what happens if you have set up a power of attorney and the person you've set it up for refuses to let you use your "power".

Definitely have a convo with the solicitor and his bank/credit card.

Can you give him some fake bank cards from the internet and keep hold of the real ones? Serves two purposes as it will also waste the scammers time when they try to use card number that dont exist.

You can get financial POA I believe. I’d be taking his cards off of him.

I have just sorted this out for my FIL

Set up another bank account for your Dad that is for everyday expenses. Give him the check book, bank card and details for that account. DO NOT link it to any other accounts. Move all your Dads money into another ‘Savings’ account that he doesnt have the details for. Set up monthly direct debit from the savings account to the one he has the details for. Make this direct debit just a small amount, just enough for him to cover daily expenses. You offer to help with the monthly household bills and ‘investing’ his savings. Then put his electric, water, phone bills on direct debit from his saving account.

Lastly tell your Dad that it is all his money, you are just trying to help with the grunt work/internet/remembering passwords hassle and that if he ever needs more than the regular direct debit, he should just call and let you know, and you will transfer more.
If he does call and ask for more, you can gently find out why and intercept scams before they can get the money

Sorry, I forgot to say, the accounts should all be in your Dads name, its all still his money, you just have all the log on info to manage it and you just keep al, the paperwork so he cant look up the account number etc. And let the bank know that he has dementia and you are his POA

I think your perhaps getting confused with executor of his will and POA

If you have a POA written up you can activate it through court of you think the time is right - seek legal advice from the solicitor who drew up the POA

If you don't have POA then think about getting this sorted asap and having the conversation with your father that no body will talk to you unless you have this and you'll be stuck trying to help if he was in hospital etc and you need to pay bills.

as an aside if you think he has dementia then do sort his council tax - again difficult to do without his permission - but get the council to send the form to his address and get doctor to sign the to get discount or possibly no charge for council tax

We switched Mums phone provider to Sky when she moved and we set up her Sky TV and broadband and it comes with Sky Shield.
Only us, the doctor, friends, and dentist etc are in the list of phone numbers that can come through.
I'd get onto the bank ASAP and see what they can do too.
Check your POA papers see if it's financial too, and talk to the bank about that too, if he has a diagnosis of Dememtia then only approved payments should go out.