Help - how do I stop my elderly father from being continually scammed?

[Jjcrackers]

My DF is 83 and clearly getting signs of dementia. He keeps getting scammed. The latest one this week was someone ringing him up and saying he had money in shares from years ago. It was very sophisticated - professional websites, contact with people who had 'been paid' (red flag immediately). He was very seduced. I told him to ignore the calls today and I would find the evidence that it was a scam. When I called him this afternoon he said they'd been on the phone and paid them £3k to release the shares.

I am sat here in tears.

I know it is too late - that money is gone, but how can we stop this from happening again? My DS and I have power of attorney in the event of his death. Is there any way we can get this while he is living? He is a very proud man so it will be a difficult conversation but something needs to be done.

@ivykaty44

I think your perhaps getting confused with executor of his will and POA

If you have a POA written up you can activate it through court of you think the time is right - seek legal advice from the solicitor who drew up the POA

If you don't have POA then think about getting this sorted asap and having the conversation with your father that no body will talk to you unless you have this and you'll be stuck trying to help if he was in hospital etc and you need to pay bills.

as an aside if you think he has dementia then do sort his council tax - again difficult to do without his permission - but get the council to send the form to his address and get doctor to sign the to get discount or possibly no charge for council tax

@ivykaty44 You don’t need to activate POA you can just start using it as soon as it’s registered. It’s paperwork you can print out online now, you just need a witness to sign it as well and then send off. No need for solicitor to do this.

I used to work in a retirement community and dealt with this regularly. The scammers are really clever and persistent. When we'd change someone's number they'd ring his neighbors and ask for the new one. Sometimes the only solution would be for us to answer the phone for the resident. I hadn't heard of the shares scam. Our residents were told they'd won something - a new car, the sweepstakes, etc. but had to pay taxes on it to get it. Most of these groups operate from the Caribbean so they're effectively beyond the reach of law enforcement.

Changing the number is good. If you can get a phone that blocks incoming calls not on a whitelist that would be very good as well, as they may eventually get the new number.

@SeaToSki had some very good suggestions also. The only risk I see is that he could probably ring the bank and get the details for the other account if it's in his name.

Depends when you set it up OP, was this years ago/can you remember or track down the paperwork? It’s changed a fair bit

I help an older person living on their own who has a screening service set on the landline phone. My adopted grand-dad has all his wits together, but wisely planned ahead.

Just a heads up about setting up a phone to only ring for recognised numbers, calls from our local hospital come through as 'private number' or 'number withheld'. Some doctors' surgeries do the same. Unfortunately those are calls you really don't want to miss.

If you have lasting power of attorney you can use it with his permission, even if he still has his faculties.

My mum doesn't have dementia, but she is largely paralysed after a stroke and in an extra care facility. My brother and I manage her financial stuff with her POA.

I also used it last week to argue with The London Mint, who use sentimental and cynical advertising to set up old people who apply to get a free VE day coin with more overpriced coins sent monthly. Like I say, she doesn't have dementia as such (so can make phone calls and use her bank card herself when she wants) , but she's still vulnerable to this sort of thing. First I knew was when I opened her post to find a late payment demand.

When I first called them, LM didn't want to deal with me, but when I emailed the POA, they sorted it out and arranged return labels and a refund.

So check the POA documents. If it's a Lasting POA, simply ask him if you can deal with the bank for him, and if he's happy to let you, then off you go.

To confirm, if you have a LASTING Power of Attorney, you can use it now. If it's an ENDURING Power of Attorney, you might not be able to. So check your paperwork.

www.tbilaw.co.uk/site/blog/family-matters-blog/difference-between-lasting-power-of-attorney-and-enduring-power

Thank you all. This is great advice. I will get on the case tomorrow and find out where we stand on POA. And if not get that in place ASAP

I really appreciate it. I was sitting here feeling very lost and now feel I can at least try and stop it happening again.

There is loads of good advice I’ve seen about this elsewhere on internet, on Which.co.uk, AgeUk (people may have already linked to). There are lots of devices and mechanisms to try and manage this fairly common problem so don’t despair!

Speak to the bank so he can't spend any money without you checking it's legitimate. X

Hi OP. You've had some great advice here and I just wanted to add my thoughts. I work in an environment where we are dealing with victims of these scams often. It's absolutely heartbreaking. Main things you can do have all been covered but I would definitely

1. speak to the bank. They have a duty of care and should not be authorising such transactions of your father is vulnerable. Make sure they're aware of the situation and that you have POA. they regularly call police when they have vulnerable people visiting the branch trying to make such withdrawals but I think it's harder if the transactions are done electronically because there's no human to see the vulnerability for themselves.
2. scratch the three numbers off the back of your dads bank card. He can't to the transaction without it
3. have his number changed
4. if you can, absolutely set up another account in your fathers name and transfer all funds to it and don't give him login details. He can then have money transferred to his current account for whatever he needs but can't authorise the big ones. He would need to agree to this or have no capacity for you to do it in his behalf though. Some clever persuasion might be required by you.
5. speak to his phone provider and explore options with them too
6. speak to the neighbours, particularly because we have scams locally where they send a 'courier' to the house to collect money from them to 'assist in a police investigation'.
7. as above, consider ring doorbell and/or cctv. Especially one that will notify you of visitors so you can get real time notification of unsavoury visitors.

You could also try speaking to your local neighbourhood police. They may have a local PCSO or officer willing to come and show your dad some of the scams that are out there. He might listen to the uniform more than you.

Good luck op

Discreetly unplug the landline whilst you get other measures in place...the phone will ring but your father wont hear it and therefore wont answer and be scammed....

I went through this with my own dad who also had dementia. There’s excellent advice here especially @shouldhavecalleditoatabix. To save time I’d advise ringing the Office of the Public Guardian on 0300 456 0300. They will tell you what kind of power of attorney, if any, is registered for your dad. If there is none it’s not too late, hopefully, to do one and I’d prioritise the Finances one ( you can also do a Health one entitling you to make healthcare decisions when he is too incapacitated).
You won’t be able to do things with the bank until you have POA, no matter how well meaning and sensible.
I went to the bank when dad starting taking money out by the £100s of pounds in a daily basis, and making impulse buys. I limited his ability to draw money out to £20/ day. Some banks can also put him on a kind of “watch “ so if anyone marches in with him and he asks to withdraw a big sum, they won’t allow it.
But it all starts with POA, hopefully you have this already. Good luck!