Advice please

[frogman17]

Hi Everyone,

I am new here and need some advice please, and of course, it's about money :)

I am Dad to two boys, aged 4 and 2. My 4yr old starts school in September. They are both currently being looked after by MIL while myself and wife work (We pay her £500/m). MIL lives with us and I am totally fed up. I have told my wife that I am done with the arrangement so we are looking to get them in School and Nursery. How on earth can we cut down the cost of childcare? Both of them in Nursery is going to cost about £1600, £1000 for the younger and £600 for he older after applying the 30hrs voucher. Older one in school and younger one in daycare is going to cost about the same. We've never used any kind of benefit before. Wife earns approximately £22k, I earn £45k but due to terrible lifestyle choices, I am in a lot of debt. We can only afford £1k max on childcare, how on earth can I make this work? Thanks very much

You’re not going to be able to get FT childcare for two children for £1000.

If you both need to work then you might want to reexamine why you can’t continue with your mil who is doing you an enormous favour.

You should be able to create a tax free childcare account and get 20% off your childcare bill

Otherwise
Could you hire a Au-pair? If you have spare room and are able to provide them with living expenses which I think is around 300pm? Although I'm not sure and no expert they can only do a small amount of childcare a week.
So you maybe have to still send one to nursery or both a few days. Could be something to look into if you have the space?

Can you middle through until your youngest qualifies for 30 free hrs?
Does your mil live with you to provide childcare or would she live with you regardless?

Thanks very much PegasusReturns, it's good to know that £1k will not do the trick and I can understand why it looks like amassive favour from MIL on the outside, the reality though, is that it's now unbearable for me. Despite my huge debts, I pay the bulk of the bills at home (split based on our earnings). Wife wants to keep MIL in but I can do it anymore. If you don't mind me asking please, what would be the very least I should be aiming for?

Do you mean your MIL would move out so she wouldn't be able to help with any childcare, not even collecting from school every so often?

If thats the case, you have a few options :

1. See if you / your wife can work compressed hours / different times eg 1 of you starts early whilst the other one does drop off then finish early so you dont need wraparound care / flexing hours to work in the evenings or weekend if thats possible so you dont need childcare;
2. Look at cheaper options (childminder, different nurseries)
3. Look at the help offered for nursery payments (government offered)
4. Look at re-jigging your finances so you have more money available for childcare payments - not ideal to just be paying off the minimum on your debts but the expensive years are quite short so you'd be able to pay off more debt as you can afford it.
5. Is there any way you.could increase your family income - change jobs (£22k isnt particularly high - is there scope to change that) or an evening job? Not ideal again but just skmething to tide you over.
6. What about renting somewhere nearby for your MIL -would she be prepared to do that and carry on with childcare? Would maybe cost less than £1600 a month?

Have you looked into breakfast and after school club for your eldest? They vary in cost. Could also enquire about a childminder for drop off and pick ups. Any chance of work allowing some flexible time to cut the need for round school time care?

When my DS was in childcare when he was younger, the first few years I was paying nearly £900 for him and that was for 30 hours a week. I am in the West Midlands. I have family living in London and their child goes to a childminder for over £1000 a month and that isn't even full time.
Unfortunately its not the answer you want to hear but childcare for 2, keeping it around the 1k mark will be very very hard.
I dont miss the childcare days. They crippled me and I only have 1. I have a friend who has 2, and his partners salary covers the childcare alone. Its terribly expensive

Have you looked to see if there are any spaces in nursery, with childminders or wrap around care? Even before Covid you needed to book 6months to a year in advance in my area. Its pointless worrying about not having the money if there aren't actually any places available anyway.

Wow, unbelievable the amount of responses I've received in a very short space of time, thank you so much everyone.

Let me add a bit of meat to the bone, MIL is living with us mainly because of childcare, that's what they claim but I know that's not the case, she won't let go of her daughter, childcare is just an excuse. Yes Africa2go, she wont be able to help out with pick up etc, she'll be gone completely. Option 1, 5 and 6 will not work for us, definitely not 6 :).

My wife cannot change job or take on more hours until at least March next year. I am going to review our finances again and see where we can make cuts, I can take up extra work but this would mean spending less time at home to help. My preference is to get them both in School and Nursery but I am not sure if there are any discounts out there for us.

nancyjuice7, you mentioned 20%, how does that work please? Au-pair will not work for us, wife will not subscribe.

www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare

I was paying £1000 for the older one when it was just him but this was when things were fine financially. The School that accepted my 4yr old is a walking distance from the house, so is the Nursery.

You’d be better off either

1. trying to cut £600 from your outgoings Or
2. earning an extra £600 pcm

Childcare is not an area where you want to be scrimping

I'd quite like to hear your DW's side of the story, or your MIL's, come to that.

What will happen to your MIL if she has to leave, will you be making her homeless?

Hi Pemba, took a while for me to figure that out DW = Dear Wife. :)

Well, her view is that MIL stays until she is able to get a new job in April next year (that’s no guarantee) and/or when the younger gets into school. Reality is that MIL has been with us ever since we got together 5 years ago, even when she isn’t, she calls her daughter not less than 20 times a day and I am not exaggerating at all. MIL won’t be homeless. My issues with the current arrangement is a lot deeper so I just want try and sort things out one at a time

You should check out the tax free childcare link the previous poster supplied. They pay up to £500 every three months per child so you would save a lot - I don’t think it would get you down to £1,000 per month but maybe £1.2 to £1.3k

More radical option but could you move somewhere where childcare is cheaper? Different parts of the country have different rates. Also PP mentioned working flexibly so one of you does early and the other lates, my DH and I each compress our hours so we work FT but over 4 days, not 5. This means that DC is only in childcare 3 days a week, rather than 5 - saves a fortune!

Thanks Dinosauraddict, a friend does the compression as well and certainly one to consider. I am able to compress mine to 4 days but I don't think wife can.

Reese123, Thanks very much. I am looking into this now, if I am able to cut it down to £1200/£1300, I can make some drastic cuts in other areas to make this work.

I am sorry to sound a sour note but MIL sounds as though she is a commodity to be moved around at will according to your needs. She is a fellow human being who has been doing you a favour.

Now, I accept that this arrangement is not working out for you (having a parent living with a couple and children is often fraught with tension, and it is clear that her presence is uncomfortable - and it sounds qs though you feel she is controlling), but please do not plan her life for her - she is an independent sentient human being whose feelings need to be taken into account. You can't just decide you are pissed off with her and ship her out at will. For a start the children will miss her - even if you don't like her, she has been a stable factor for the whole of their lives while Mum and Dad come and go according to their work demands.

I really do think MIL deserves to be a party to these discussions - or are you just trying to get your ducks in a row so you can present her with your solution?

It is not a very healthy situation that MIL has been in your home since you got together, and I absolutely get that you want that to change, but it needs to be done with kindness I feel. You have gained from her presence as well as finding it irritating.

And yes - I am a MIL! I have had various of my AC living with me with their spouses and children at times because of their circumstances and it does take tact and understanding to make it work - and each time we knew it was not permanent. And I am very careful indeed to make sure that my contact with these lovely young families is tailored to their needs and not intrusive - I wait to be asked!!! I was asked to share lockdown with one of my DDs (my OH having just died) and I was happy to be asked, but did not accept as I rate their privacy as very important.

I am just saying that your MIL has been a central factor in your family's organisation and that she might need to be treated gently when making new (and entirely understandable) plans. Please take account of the good she has done too.

Just a thought!

OP unfortunately it seems you feel your only option is to put you children in childcare and your MIL move out. No-one can question your reasons for feeling this way but believe me, you will realise just how much she is helping you out when your children do go into childcare. Childcare was great for my child and I dont regret placing him in childcare, but when my mom was able to help out she just offered more flexibility, there were no late fees etc. My relationship with my Mom is difficult at times. Quite frankly she can make me feel shit about the way I do things despite her having no valid reason for her opinions/comments. The amount of times I would say she wasn't ever helping me again because of how her comments would make me feel. But my god, looking back I appreciated her help so much not to mention the money she saved me. Childcare never really ends especially for primary school children. My parents help out during school holidays and I am so so so grateful as it saves me so much hassle and money

You can't do one thing in isolation. Address your debts and you may find that you have funds for childcare.

Hi Mischance and SpideyMom,

Thanks very much for writing such a long piece, you have both made very good points about my MIL and one would have thought I am not being ungrateful for her help and the stability she’s brought. My relationship with my MIL started off very well but things have really turned sour, it took a while for me to figure out what she actually is like as I used to work away from home. In the last 3yrs, I have stayed at home with a job closeby. As Mischance advised, I’ll definitely bear in mind all the support she’s given when making this new arrangement. Believe me, this is not a matter of just kicking her out cold and there’s not an issue with money for her, she owns a house and has other things bringing income for her. Having said this, she’s not got much going on, she’s pretty much someone you would class as a young MIL, no partner, boyfriend or anything as such.
Now, you might be wondering what on earth is wrong with me and why can’t I just be appreciative and endure till the kids get a little older and then Nursery won’t be too much of an issue. Well, I have a MIL who is obese and brought her kids up eating terribly, wife is obese too, we had the conversation NUMEROUS times before we got together and I told her it was 100% a deal breaker for me, she assured me it would be worked on (I was stupid to believe, I should have looked closely). Fast-forward 7yrs, I find myself living with 2 obese women, MIL goes out shopping and you know what to expect, all sorts of different brands of ice cream and lollypops for her and the kids, now the kids just help themselves, they know where it is in the fridge. Older Son is 4 and still not properly potty trained, I try to encourage him when I am home and weekends but he spends more time with MIL. Sex with wife doesn’t exist anymore, 3 times in the last two years, none in the last year, attraction = zero. Default house condition for wife and MIL is dirty, only tidy up occasionally. If I don’t clean, it doesn’t get done, if I mention it, it’s argument with wife so I just do it and not bother discussiing. She once was defended her Mum saying the lollypops for the kids was to give MIL breathing space when looking after them (It’s A LOT of lollypops for the kids believe me). She later agreed it was too much (of course after an argument) There’s no point going into too much detail but I am sure you get the general gist. Of course, there are two sides to a story but there really isn’t much to disagree with the above as they are obvious. We are cohabiting parents now as far as I can see it and as this is the case, the kids have to come first. Their lifestyle is the complete opposite of mine, I can’t stand an untidy house. It hard enough trashing these things out with lazy wif (she won’t accept) , let alone + MIL. I believe If I can take MIL out of the mix, it’s half the problem solved, of course another one created (money for childcare), but one I am willing to take on.

Very correct MrsMoastyToasty, I am working on my debts, making those lifestyle changes. I have also increased working hours.

It sounds as though there is a lot more to this than childcare!

I do understand your concern over the possibility of obesity looming for your children but why did you marry your wife if you find her body shape unattractive? And I hear that you feel out of control of curbing your children's diet as it feels out of your hands.

I hear a man who feels he has no role at home - not that of lover (the art of silent sex is challenge enough with children let alone with MIL there too), not that of parent with any control, not that of husband in anything other than name. It sounds as though the female mafia has you on the run!

So...I think you need to think wider about this - it really is not just about affording child care.

Book a week away with your wife - leave the children with MIL(she has her uses!) - and sit down with your wife and talk all this through. Talk about what you both want from life, from marriage, for your children and see if there is any common ground and compromise to be had. If there isn't you have to plan for a very different future. Wife deserves respect, which you clearly do not feel towards her (not judging here) and it may be that you are simply not suited.

I know that the future would then be very difficult as you might feel even less in control of how your children are brought up - but can things continue as they are?

I wish you lots of luck as you sort all this out.

Once again thanks Mischance,

It’s true that this isn’t about childcare alone and that was why I said in one of my earlier post that I am trying to sort things out one at a time. I know childcare is only a small part of my problem.

My mum asked me the same question - why I married her, I think this line of questioning is unfair, why not ask why she agreed to marry me? Well, I married her because we had the discussion and she accepted and promised. So I shouldn’t have taken her words?
On the getaway, that’s a very good advice, unfortunately, we’ve done this before (we didn’t go anywhere though, just had the discussion) and we both have accepted that we are not suited. We are both scared of that different future. We both know where we are heading but hiding from reality using the kids as cover-up.

To be honest, I just want to get the childcare sorted first.

Yes, the respect seem to have gone, it wasn't like this before and she's mentioned it to me. I'm just angry with the way everything has turned out

OP its brave of you voicing these issues on what is, let's be honest, a very female dominant platform.
Clearly as you say the childcare is a very minor issue really, but one you are focusing on because your kids are your priority. But you really come across very unhappy and things are taking their toll.
It seems like there are big issues between you and your wife that need addressing?