Mum can't manage money - advice?

[wanderingduckling]

I'd really appreciate some advice on how you'd approach a situation. My mum is 62 and lives with my step dad, 55. I've been concerned about their financial situation for a long time. They have no pension savings and their house has needed renovation since they moved into it 25 years ago. It needs tens of thousands of £ work to be a comfortable /safe place to retire to. They earn an average wage and have no savings.

My mum has mental health issues which she will not get help with. She buys incredible amounts of food which she hoards and ultimately bins, has 10 wardrobes stuffed full of cheap clothes she buys weekly etc etc. She's also vulnerable to financial scams - e.g. she paid £4k for a will storage service.

I've tried to intervene in the past by trying to get them to look at their finances and think about what they need to save for retirement. Maybe understandably this has been met with real anger.

The other week I helped mum buy a new pc. Her old one was on its knees and I found a new, high spec pc that met her needs for a good price. I called her last night to find she's spent £200 on a dodgy laptop from eBay to use as a webcam and outside. It's already so old and nackered it can't be used without mains power. Meanwhile, she's claiming poverty and that they can't afford to replace a tumbledryer that's broken. These kinds of odd purchases happen frequently and they're often hidden.

In theory, I know her finances aren't my business, the flip side is I can see that when their money runs out I am going to have to support them. I can easily see them ending up homeless in their old age.

For what it's worth, I'm the only child, in my mid 30s, my husband and I earn very well yet we're trapped in a one bed flat trying to save the ridiculous deposit we need for a house within commuting distance of London. I've never had or expected financial support from my mum. I'm just worried that having to fund her is going to stop me living my own life (e.g. to have children we would need IVF and surrogacy due to my health). Spending on ourselves, like having a weekly takeaway, is often met with snotty comments about how wealthy we are.

I appreciate the above is long but context felt important. Is there anything anyone thinks I can do now rather than waiting for things to reach crisis point?

Why do you feel you have to fund her? Do not do it, they need to sort themselves out and not be enabled by you.

To be honest I think you need to detach. You could gently point out that they can afford treats too if they sorted themselves out.

I probably sound harsh but honestly it's not your responsibility- they've made clear they don't want your input.

Could you contact the Age UK helpline? they can offer advice on situations like this and are open 8am-7pm (phone number is 0800 678 1602) x

@OliviaBenson When they inevitably end up in a situation where they can't afford to pay the bills / eat then letting the authorities pick them up or let them live in poverty is of course an option. However, it's quite cold, she's ill and she's my mother.

Is she known to the mental health team. You could speak to adult social services or her gp if you feel she is at risk. They wont discuss this in detail but you could express your concerns.

One of the toughest positions is to watch a loved one going down a path of self destruction and not be able to do anything.

For your own mental well being you need to have boundaries in place. Avoid all discussions about finances, yours and hers. If she raises issues you can be non committal, offer sympathy or just reverse the question such as "what do you want to do about it?"

Don't get involved in her buying decisions and if she asks, such as the PC, offer a solution if you have the skill but that is where your efforts should end.

It seems that the parent/child role has reversed so you need to get back to an adult-adult relationship. It will take time.

It is sad for you as most adult children can rely on parental support and if you have children I assume you won't feel happy to let them stay over in an unsafe house.

One thing to realise is your parents were born in a positive time so they had the opportunity, subject to health, to achieve financial goals. They must choose to prioritise other needs..you can change that so need to adopt a mantra of "it is their life"

You wont have to fund them. If they own a house they will always have that. Does stepdad have family who can help.

@HappyHammy no she's not known to a MH team, she is not that unwell. It certainly wouldn't be acceptable for me to gain power of attorney on MH grounds etc. The house will just be paid off by the time my step dad retires and he does not have family to help. They will need to do equity release to raise enough money to do the works, leaving them little money for the rest of their lives. I'm not going to lie that I'm sad that there will be no inheritance for me but of course that's not the main point.

@Techway thank you for the kind and reasoned words and I agree that I feel like the parent in this relationship. As you can probably infer, Mum came from a very traumatic background and so she hasn't had the opportunity she should have. I would feel incredibly guilty to live in a nice house and know my parents were cold / hungry.

I was thinking more you can call social services if you feel she is at risk especially with scams. I thought maybe she might be known to mental health team as you say she has mh issues and was unwell. With the house needed work there are government schemes and grants available if that would help.

If they have a paid-off house and state pension, I'm not sure their situation will be as dire as you anticipate. I hear you that you don't think the house is safe, but I don't think it likely that they will be forced out of it. Are they actively running up debts right now, or simply not saving? When their income declines, it seems more probable your mum will have less available for inappropriate spending if they are staying more or less within their means for now. They will get pension and heating benefits if they need them. They won't be on the street or starving.

I don't blame you for worrying, but I'm not sure it's worth you spending your life right now constantly anticipating a massive crisis that may never hit.

If I was 55, I’d be pretty pissed off with my stepdaughter calling AgeUK on me!

@HauntedGoatFart (great name :D ) yes they are actively running up debts. Mum regularly accumulates credit card debts which my Step Dad pays off with his savings (depleting those). You're right that it's probably not as dire as I paint it short-term. What I'm anticipating is that by the time they're old enough to want to downsize, they will have spent all of the house equity

@blue25

If I was 55, I’d be pretty pissed off with my stepdaughter calling AgeUK on me!

She's 62 (and the higher earner) & I have definitely not done that - I tried once to take them through the Money Saving Expert finance audit and think about how much they'd need to save in order to complete the work they need to do on the house.

the flip side is I can see that when their money runs out I am going to have to support them

make it clear to her now that you won't be doing that then leave them to it.

[quote wanderingduckling]@HauntedGoatFart (great name :D ) yes they are actively running up debts. Mum regularly accumulates credit card debts which my Step Dad pays off with his savings (depleting those). You're right that it's probably not as dire as I paint it short-term. What I'm anticipating is that by the time they're old enough to want to downsize, they will have spent all of the house equity[/quote]
Okay. That does complicate the picture, albeit they are not accumulating debt if it's regularly getting paid off.

It may help you to research the responsibilities of the council and the benefits available in your actual worst case scenario where they have spent the house equity. Granted that in many areas social housing is not exactly freely available, we still do not have pensioners living on the streets. They may not be in luxury, but I really think your picture of them cold and hungry is unlikely to be realised.

Do you want to make your peace with helping them out financially some day, or do you want to toughen up and accept that they are adults who will do what they will do?

I'm trying not to go into too much detail (even though I've said quite a bit!) but the debts seem to be ticking up overall, particularly given mum is now counting down to retirement.

I work in the financial sector so I'm quite aware of the future trend towards poverty in retirement which is why I am anxious.

I posted in here to see if anyone had suggestions of anything I can do to avoid it being such a binary choice when the moment comes. As I'm quite good with money myself I know they can avoid this situation if they wish. Ultimately I think the message I'm getting is that I have to leave them alone until they need help and then I have to choose. Thank you for all the helpful comments, I appreciate it!

I have actually been in a similar situation. My mum and her partner have made terrible financial decisions and subsequently asked me to take on a mortgage for their house in my name. I refused.

I would say that you have to be firm and not allow yourself to take responsibility for their financial decisions. If you would like to help, I suggest buying food or paying a bill for them so you know where your money is going. Just like you, I don't want them to struggle but there is only so much one can do as parents will not generally appreciate being told what to do by their offspring.

I give my mum a monthly allowance but don't begrudge her for what she spends her money on as I know that I've done my bit to help. Best of luck. Xx

Yes I think unfortunately you probably need to try and disengage. There are things that can be done to protect the vulnerable financially but as far as I know they need the consent of the person and/or for the person to be assessed as lacking capacity to manage their own money, otherwise it just falls under the heading of 'unwise decisions its the person's right to make' - I fully appreciate how very difficult it is though to see a person you love putting themselves in such a precarious situation... my Dad died last year having suffered from mental health issues for years and his finances were in a right old mess, lots of loans both secured and unsecured, credit cards, overdrafts, bad debts he was being chased by bailiffs for, random 'investments' that were basically scams, house in a total mess from never having any money spent on it for decades, and piles of hoarded 'junk' everywhere. It wasn't so much that there was no inheritance whatsoever left for me and my DBro, or that we had to pay ourselves for his funeral that was upsetting, more that it just meant his last years were so much less comfortable than they needed to be all due to his poor decision making and refusal to accept help. But like your Mum he would brook no interference whatsoever so we just had to let it be. I was also frankly quite angry with him over a number of years as his financial habits really impacted negatively on my DM who had problems of her own and it obviously made a difficult time after his death worse trying to sort out the horrible state of his affairs. But, ultimately, it actually wasn't a disaster, all the unsecured credit/debt just disappeared when he died, the house had to be sold to pay off the multiple mortgages my mum could no longer afford but that was frankly a blessing as we'd been trying to persuade them to move to sheltered housing for years anyway. All the people we dealt with including the council were really helpful, I feel much more confident that whatever its flaws, the 'system' will not leave elderly or vulnerable people on the streets.

There was a very interesting thread on here last year about a MNetter whose Mum had MH problems and had let her house get to an actually uninhabitable state (water pouring through the roof and no power etc.), she was really surprised/pleased at how supportive social services were about getting her sorted out and into a suitable council flat etc., obviously the level of service and availability will vary area by area but again I think this can reassure you that there is a safety net for the elderly...

My advice is this: detach. You have your own financial concerns and you are not responsible for them. Don't get involved. Don't ask questions. Don't give advice. There are deep rooted issues here which you cannot address unless they are willing to address them.

I have experience of this and it didn't end well for me. I would have been far better staying out of it.

You could help them find a decent equity release scheme.

You know deep down you can't help them. They are choosing to spend their money on crap.

Unfortunately the only way to help them is to let them fail. You can't risk your own family financial stability to try and support your mum.

I doubt they will actually end up on the streets, social services will intervene at that point. perhaps if you point out to them that social services will have to be involved, they'll listen to you!

@wanderingduckling I feel for you. I have been in a similar situation with my father who had dementia, but previous to this he was a widower for some time and generally not one of life’s copers so had felt responsible for him every since my mother died ( I was in my 20s). The hoarding and buying junk was very much a feature, which he did to an extent anyway but the dementia amplified it. The only way I got control was by getting power of attorney but of course to justify that I had to know that he was losing capacity. All this was very emotionally hard and I ended up needing nearly 2 years of counselling to cope with my feelings of anger, guilt, regret etc.
I totally get that you want to do your best, you hate the idea of your parents being financially insecure. On these threads many people will advise adult children to detach of even walk away. That wasn’t an option I could entertain. But I would say, also do everything you can to protect yourself, to carve out protected, guilt free time for yourself. For me counselling helped.

One thing you could explore further is supporting her to get help with her mental health. From what you’ve described of her spending, it is possible she has some form of manic personality disorder. By seeking a proper diagnosis and treatment, some of these compulsive spends might come under better control

There is absolutely nothing you can do for them. You've offered help, they refuse it. Let them live their lives and they can deal with the consequences.

Just let them get on with it. Make it clear you won't be bailing them out.