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17 year old not going back to school. Loss of tax credit help!

266 replies

avroroad · 06/05/2020 14:37

Please go gentle on me, up until 3 years ago DH and I both worked full time. Him for over 30 years, me for just under. Now we have found ourselves sin a bit of a shitty position.

The upshot is that DS, 17, may not be returning to school but won't be going to Uni until 2021. So this means a loss of CB and my tax credits will drop - I will just have one child on my claim. I get carers allowance (for DH) and up until Covid-19 I was self employed. That income has gone for the foreseeable, mainly due to the industry which isn't going to pick up anytime soon. We are managing but I am really worried about what happens when I lose the money for DS (end of August iirc) There is nothing for him. He isn't ready to get a job, even if there were jobs available, due to being autistic. So does that leave us as we are or is there anything I could do that might make things a bit easier? UC maybe? I have been reluctant to do anything that would trigger a switch to UC because all the calculators told me (haven't looked recently - I'm baffled won't it all now) that tax credits are a better option.

This isn't a simple case of 'get a job' for me. I have a job. I have my business waiting for me when trade picks up again (realistically looking at months though) and I have heavily invested etc. My job suits my circumstances ordinarily. What I do meantime, if anything, I have no idea though.

OP posts:
Concerned7777 · 07/05/2020 11:45

Ok Confused

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 07/05/2020 12:01

Ok - I think I’ve worked out the school problem (I’m English so find the whole Scottish system very confusing!)

So pre-Covid he was sitting Highers this summer and then doing advanced highers next summer. After which he would be 18 and hopefully able to go to university. He is academically able.

Post Covid, highers have been cancelled so he will just get grades for these. School has now started teaching the advanced Highers but he isn’t able to engage with this due to his autism. As a result he is now terrified of being behind when he goes back to school (August?) and so is announcing he maybe doesn’t want to go back to school at all.

This isn’t the disaster it would be for an English student (who would be mid A level right now) as Highers are enough to get a place in university. However he can’t go straight to university as he hasn’t applied, it’s going to be a right mess and at 17 he just isn’t ready.

Is that a fair summary?

Question:- Is starting advanced Highers in May usual or is this just a Covid thing being done as the kids are not doing their higher exams? Because if it is the second one then presumably normally they would start the Highers in August and the course is designed to be done in August. And starting now is just a “get ahead” thing. It may be worth talking to school about this as he won’t be the only one who can’t engage. They may be planning on starting from the beginning in August and just letting those who have already done the work have an easy couple of months. Does that make sense? In which case your son can stop stressing about school now and just start in August and do the course he was always planning.

JanMeyer · 07/05/2020 12:07

We are not taking about an entitled, bratty teenager here. He is a teenager who has a lifelong condition that affects how he copes every single day.

And yet you insist he couldn't possibly qualify for PIP. If his autism affects the way he copes with everyday life then it's possible he would get it. And yes, i know you told people to stop mentioning PIP but you keep changing your story every five minutes so, whatever. One minute you're adamant his autism is not a big deal, then next when people are making very valid points you play the "he has a lifelong condition which affects how he copes" card. And having autism doesn't preclude one from being an entitled bratty teenager.

avroroad · 07/05/2020 12:17

And yet you insist he couldn't possibly qualify for PIP. If his autism affects the way he copes with everyday life then it's possible he would get it.

He doesn't meet the criteria. That hasn't changed. He is still the same person today that he was yesterday. He didn't meet the criteria yesterday either. Or the day before. Of the day the DWP said he didn't meet the criteria. Or the time before that when they said it. Or any of the times he didn't meet the criteria for DLA. We have been here already. I have said he does not meet the criteria already. I'm not asking about PIP. That was never what the thread was about.

And yes, i know you told people to stop mentioning PIP but you keep changing your story every five minutes so, whatever.

It's not a story and I haven't changed a single detail. Not once.

One minute you're adamant his autism is not a big deal, then next when people are making very valid points you play the "he has a lifelong condition which affects how he copes" card.

Autism is a lifelong condition that affects how people cope with things. That isn't an automatic entitlement to PIP. I do wish people would stop having a go at me for saying he does not meet the criteria. It's possible to not meet the criteria for PIP, yet still struggle with a sudden change in circumstances. I have not once said his autism is 'not a big deal', of course it's a big deal, what I am saying is he does not meet the criteria for PIP, I am saying we have been here, several times over, yet now you are tying to use it against me for whatever reason. Don't have a go at me for being able to understand that people can have lifelong conditions, that do affect them every day, yet still not meet the criteria to claim PIP. It's fucking exhausting.

And having autism doesn't preclude one from being an entitled bratty teenager

No, but my son isn't being either of those things.

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 12:22

@Mumoftwoyoungkids

YES!!! Thank you. You have absolutely nailed it. That is exactly it!!

And yes they do start the school year in May after the exams here normally. I have spoken to school and of all goes well re the virus by August he will be able to go back and catch up, that's always been an option. However there is just a possibility that he may not go back and was just asking re which benefit is better for me if he doesn't.

Thank you for laying it out in easier to understand terms. I think I have got myself caught up in defending irrelevant factors!

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 07/05/2020 12:31

I think the issue here is there is no suggestion any one can give you other to allow your son to do as he pleases, that you will accept

All you want to know is what claim should you put in to get the maximum benefits, nothing more nothing less.

avroroad · 07/05/2020 12:37

*I think the issue here is there is no suggestion any one can give you other to allow your son to do as he pleases, that you will accept
**
*
It's not an issue. I wasn't asking for advice re what my son should do.

All you want to know is what claim should you put in to get the maximum benefits, nothing more nothing less.

Not what I should put in, no. I'm not about to make things up and put random things to maximise my benefits, I'm asking whether I should move to UC or try to stick with TC. Honestly I don't get the problem with asking that. I have seen so many people ask similar and be given really good advice on Mumsnet. It quite natural to want to make sure I am claiming the right benefit for my circumstances, most people who have had life changing things to deal with do that, don't they?

I'm laughing a bit at the idea that I shouldn't ensure I'm on the right benefit but literally scores of posters are telling me my son should be claiming PIP though. Irony at its finest.

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 12:40

@Bluntness100

Sorry I misread the last part of your post.

Yes I DO want to know what claim to put in to maximise my benefits. No one in their right mind would actively seek out UC if TC was better. Equally no one would remain on TC if UC was better. Surely that's just basic? I don't know why you seem to think that it's a problem me asking about it. Yes it absolutely IS what I want to know.

OP posts:
Imonlydoingwhatican · 07/05/2020 12:56

My son is 19 and has autism and like your situatiin if he doesnt return in september we loose his part of tax credits, currently waiting on reassesment for echp (on hold due to covid so no idea whats happening) if he does go back then tc only valid till his 20th birthday a few months later. He claims pip and i would recomend putting in a claim , they can claim uc indepently from 16, if they have an award for pip this can effect how much thry get, likely to be extra, plus with his permisson you can be his appointee which means you handle all financial matters for him, we have spone to son about all of this for when the time comes and have said we will expect a contribution to food etc.. if he stays with us (not able to live indepently)he has agreed, he knows that it will cost him less to stay here thrn move out even with extra uc to cover rent.

Graphista · 07/05/2020 12:59

It’s actually not even involving him in your finances, it’s involving him in his own. If he’s leaving school as far as Scots govt concerned he’s an adult.

From googling in relation to his age one possibility might be to switch the carers allowance to him (is that something you could do? NOT fraudulently is he able to provide care to his father?) and then you claim UC as unemployed currently? I’m not sure how the rules are affecting sole traders like yourself with the covid differences to claims.

I’m just trying to think how you may be able to juggle things to increase household income.

There’s also a young Carer grant - only available in Scotland which only requires the Carer to be providing 16 hours of care as opposed to the 35 hours for carers allowance. It’s only £300 a year but every little helps?

Another good reason to contact a LOCAL agency for advice on benefits is because it really does work differently in Scotland.

How long ago was he refused for DLA/pip? Did you have support in completing and submitting the claim?

Unfortunately a LOT of claims are initially refused - mine was. This is almost standard and shockingly dwp staff have been caught out by investigative journalists admitting that they aren’t necessarily refusing on the basis the claimant isn’t eligible but because it would make their target quotas look bad (they get in trouble if they accept too many claims within a certain time period) this is why THOUSANDS of claimants when they’ve challenged the refusals have had the decisions overturned.

I was in despair when my initial claim was refused. I was extremely ill at the time and had a young dd to consider.

I had an appointment with gp same day and ended up crying on her shoulder about it. She signposted me to a mh support group and they advised me this was not uncommon especially with mental illness and certain other conditions and signposted me to the welfare rights people.

I hold 2 degrees and have worked as a civil servant and wrongly thought I’d be fine doing the claim myself as a result. One thing I had taken from being a civil servant (and previous incompetent and unprofessional treatment by dwp) was to photocopy any forms to keep my own copy.

I took this into my first appointment with welfare rights and they were straight away able to point out loads of things I had neglected to include in the claim (I had wrongly thought I was only meant to include info pertaining to main reason for claim and had omitted everything to do with other mh issues and my physical disability which at that time wasn’t as bad as it is now)

She noticed my limp as I entered her office for starters and then when looking at the form noticed I hadn’t mentioned anything about the physical. There were also some things I’d omitted somewhat unconsciously due to embarrassment about them.

She helped me with the appeal, attended the next assessment with me, took notes very obviously during the assessment and my appeal was upheld and my claim backdated (which I really didn’t expect)

As I mentioned earlier I recently - well end of last year - has to claim pip as DLA claim was being ended.

I was very anxious at first but with help from welfare rights and some very well informed mn’ers too I put my claim in and was very pleasantly surprised to get awarded enhanced for both elements - having been just a few years earlier I couldn’t get higher rate DLA for either element.

Unfortunately there’s no consistency, it’s luck of the draw to a degree.

That’s why it is useful to get support from those who know how the system works AND who know how it works locally.

Imonlydoingwhatican · 07/05/2020 13:04

Re benefits for you, i didnt see if you have more children. If you dont, then if you need help with rent you can move to uc. If its just extra help with earnings then it will be uc, as he wont be eligable for tax credits you will no longer be able to claim, that is if he doesnt register on a course. Ive been told if they are registered on a course, but cant attend due to illness or college isnt open, then they can still claim tc as its out of their control and would attend if possible.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 07/05/2020 13:06

Avro - it all makes sense now! Sounds like school is by far the best place for him but he needs to work that one out for himself. Any chance he would let you or your husband teach him a bit (even if you have to spend the night before swotting up like mad each day!) I suspect that once he starts he’d be fine. He just can’t figure out how to begin.

Re: benefits - I think that you need to see someone who specialises in them. They are so complex and vary so much for each tiny change in circumstance. The big risk is that once you move onto Universal Credit you can’t get back so you do need to think about how things could change in the future and make sure that none of them are dreadful if you do go for UC.

avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:10

Re benefits for you, i didnt see if you have more children.

Yes. I will be claiming for one child, it's in the OP. That's why I was asking if it would be better to look into changing from TC at that stage.

If you dont, then if you need help with rent you can move to uc.

No rent to consider.

If its just extra help with earnings then it will be uc, as he wont be eligable for tax credits you will no longer be able to claim, that is if he doesnt register on a course.

I know I won't be claiming for him. That's what I was asking . Which would be the better way forward when he falls off the claim.

OP posts:
bookmum08 · 07/05/2020 13:11

avroroad I want to scream on your behalf over this thread - I can see why you are getting so frustrated. Maybe start a new thread under a namechange that says something like "my youngest child has finished school now so my tax credits amount will change. I could change to universal credit but I like to know if UC would actually be any better or shall I just stay with tax credits even though the amount I currently get will be lower"
No mention of autism.
No mention of your son not working.
I bet you will get a completely different set of answers.
Unfortunately I know zero about TC vs UC so can't help there.
Good luck.

Bluntness100 · 07/05/2020 13:17

Personally I don’t see it as a problem op, you need to live your life as you wish.

People just need to stop trying to help you and accept you wish to let your son do as he sees fit and you simoly wish to know which claim will give you the most in benefits.

People might not be able to understand it or your position, but that’s irrelevant.

All you want to know is which government scheme will give you the most money, end of.

avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:18

It’s actually not even involving him in your finances, it’s involving him in his own. If he’s leaving school as far as Scots govt concerned he’s an adult.

A personal decision has been made to support him irrespective of what the government think. I am allowed to do that. I'm not asking for any help that way.

From googling in relation to his age one possibility might be to switch the carers allowance to him (is that something you could do? NOT fraudulently is he able to provide care to his father?) and then you claim UC as unemployed currently? I’m not sure how the rules are affecting sole traders like yourself with the covid differences to claims.

We have considered this as a possible but I think I covered up thread how bloody awful it was to get carers in the first place. It took a good 18 months and as self employed it's actually a real pita. I don't want to rock that boat if I don't have to.

I’m just trying to think how you may be able to juggle things to increase household income.

There’s also a young Carer grant - only available in Scotland which only requires the Carer to be providing 16 hours of care as opposed to the 35 hours for carers allowance. It’s only £300 a year but every little helps?

Thanks, I will look into that as well. I don't know how it works but it's me being in carers allowance though, also I and the one who does the care, so o don't think he would get it based on that. DH's care isn't something we have ever wanted our kids to take on. I'm happy to shoulder that.

Another good reason to contact a LOCAL agency for advice on benefits is because it really does work differently in Scotland.

Definitely doing this. There are a few good suggestions in this thread and I have been taking notes throughout.

Thank you for your reply, I am trying to respond to everyone because, despite what has been said about me previously, I do appreciate everyone who is posting. I will decline to response to the PIP thing though. I really don't want to go over it. I have tried hard not to post every last detail about it just to prove my point, but it's not what the thread was for so I have decided to refrain and try to move on. Thanks.

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:19

All you want to know is which government scheme will give you the most money, end of.

You are making me sound like a right cunt here, but yes, that's the long and the short of it. Thanks.

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:20

@bookmum08

Thanks. I feel my disguise would not be strong enough! I may do it at a later date though and see what happens Grin I appreciate your under though.

OP posts:
Imonlydoingwhatican · 07/05/2020 13:23

As i said in my previous message if he does come off the claim then you will no longer qualify for child tax credits. Possibly working tax credits but that will be based on hours and earnings you can go to entiltiedto.co.uk and do a a calculation based on your son not being on the claim, but as an extra adult in the home. this will give you both figures for tax credits and uc for you and your son separately. Hopefully this will gove tou thr answer your looking for.

avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:25

@Bluntness100

Incidentally, are you always so nippy to people down on their luck or did I just land unlucky?

• Husband had an accident which left him quite badly disabled.

• Have 2 autistic children

• Trying my hardest to hang on to my business whilst caring for my husband and children

• Willing to support my son from of benefits I do not get for him specifically, because I am a reasonable parent who understands the value of time

Get slated for asking whether TC is going to still be right for me or if I should move to UC Confused

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:26

As i said in my previous message if he does come off the claim then you will no longer qualify for child tax credits.

I will get tax credits for one child.

OP posts:
Imonlydoingwhatican · 07/05/2020 13:34

Sorry my mistake x. No one here can say if your better off on either as you know its individual case by case, go to entiltedto, this is your best route to give examples based on your situation. Eventually tc will stop for all, and its being phased in slowly where its not happned yet, so just bare that in mind the choice might not be there to choose. Entitledto is a very useful tool. Thyve only ever been a few pounds out for me x

avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:40

And to add to the idea that I am only out to maximise the benefits I can claim, if that was my sole aim I would be making DS go back to school becaue if he goes back I would get more tax credits then I will if he leaves. So yeah, not really just in it for the money here Hmm

OP posts:
avroroad · 07/05/2020 13:42

No one here can say if your better off on either as you know its individual case by case,

Thanks. If only this had been the first reply!

I'm looking at the calculators although up thread someone said they may not be accurate.

I'm going to get as much advice as possible though form various agencies.

OP posts:
Embracelife · 07/05/2020 13:58

Call someone like contact.org.uk/scotland for advice.