Husband refuses to have joint account

[CardiffMum]

I have returned to work part time after the birth of my first child. As a result I am now earning far less - my husband was always earning substantially more than me and now this gap has widened. We have never had a joint bank account and while on maternity leave I lived on my savings.

I currently contribute to the mortgage, family bills etc the percentage of family income that I earn. I don't feel this is the best way as I don't feel I am paying for any one thing, just a bit of everything. My husband refuses to have a joint bank account as he genuinely does not trust anyone else - including me - with financial matters.

I would prefer for us both to pay our salaries into a joint account from which all 'family' bills are paid, and that we both take a small equal amount from that account each month to pay for our own luxuries. My husband won't agree to this and I cannot get him to understand the loss of independence I feel in relying on him financially, which is why I lived on savings during my maternity leave. He said I should ask him for money when I needed it but having always earned my own money I could not bring myself to do that. It would have felt demeaning and I know he would have kept a mental running total of how much he was giving me. During a recent conversation I said we are both contributing to our family financially, and he said 'no, not really' - as if my contribution is negligible despite working almost full time hours in 3 days and doing childcare for 2 days (and majority childcare on weekends - not sure why that happens but seems to be the way it is).

If we have another child and my income reduces further, I could not bear to have to ask for every penny I need and keep justifying what I am spending. Please tell me that someone out there has a sensible solution - or if they can help me articulate to my husband exactly what I find so hard about having to ask for the money. I'm normally pretty assertive but I just cannot get him to understand how undignified it would feel for me to keep asking for money.

This is getting really hard.

Help.

is it a possibility that you'll give up work in the future? If you are already paying what you call 'your' bills, I would drop paying that 30% for a bit then. Say to him you don't feel comfortable asking for money but by dropping paying for that portion, you're effectively maintaining your bank balance (and ensuring that if you did pack it all in, he would just carry on paying as he's doing now iyswim).

and I'm not one to suggest therapy or anything like that but money problems are the type that always rear their heads aren't they and it does sound like he has some major issues

if another pregnancy comes along then that's probably very sound advice and i will definitely take that on board so i will effectively be saving to cover the period where i won't be earning to avoid having to ask for money which is a good way around it.
(his response will be he can't pay for everything - in which case he should have thought about that before starting a family...)

Need to go away and have a proper think about things before trying to sort the issue again.

Thanks for this tip though - will use it.

and yes, i've been thinking about financial 'therapy' over the past few weeks, if there is such a thing.

maybe that's what it will take to make him see the extent that his lack of trust is troubling me.

thanks all.

Cardiffmum - your preferred plan is the way DH and I operate. Before children we paid both salaries into the joint account then paid ourselves an allowance each month which then went into our individual accounts. When I went (very) part time, my salary went into my own account as after fares and childminding there was little left. Later on I have taken on paying for the children's clothes, school fees and now university fees whilst DH's salary largely goes on household expenses - mortgage, utilities,food etc. DH occasionally moans about his salary just disappearing and can sometimes get a bit uptight about excessive supermarket bills - but our system works for us. The most important point is that you have both to be happy with the system and guarantee yourselves each a small but equal amount of money to spend on clothes, books, hobbies etc.

I think you shouldn't have used your savings when you were on maternity leave. You were starting a family for both of you, after all. Don't do that again, when no 2 comes along. Do you own the house as well as your husband? Because contributing to the mortgage if you aren't owning seems not fair to me. And most of all, you are doing work lookign after your child, and it shouldn't be unpaid and undervalued. So try and see it as a wage that is due to you when you have to rely on him for money. It took me many years to not feel guilty about spending "his" money, but it is really what you deserve/earn for doing the childcare!

Have you asked him what he would expect your financial arrangements to be if you were to have another baby? if you become a sahm then you will be totally dependent on him financially, which is normal and acceptable imo. Having to justify what you spend the money on is not ok imo. My dh gives me my money every week without fail.I've never had to ask for it, its never late, he has never criticised what i choose to spend it on. In fact, we never talk about it at all. Could you see this working for you if you bacame sahm. If you agreed on a reasonable amount every month then you wouldn't be able to run away with his fortune.

Second what TheDuchess said about trust. I can't believe you lived on "your" savings when you were on Maternity Leave. . This issue needs to be seriously discussed.

'He' has savings and you don't know how much! i hope it helps you to feel stronger about this if I say that within a marriage, that is a seriously weird state of affairs. i realise some people operate with seperate current accounts, but for him to have this money that you are no part of....that IS odd. Surely this sort of money is for your JOINT future, for things that you will both do, plans you will make together; that IS family life.

this would be a real deal breaker for me. I couldn't bear this attitude. I think it wants dealing with as soon as possible.

FWIW, DH and I are like the friends you mention - we pool our salaries in the joint account, then WERE there to be any left over for spending (HA!) we would take equal amounts. And that applies when I have earned nothing as well as when I'm earning a bit/equal to DH/more than DH. It's part of marriage.

My ex had this attitude to money.
The operative word being EX. Luckily we had no children but it was the thought of having to ask him for money if we had become parents, that was the end of the relationship. You must have realised what he would be like when you married him?
My lovely dp and I have separate accounts and separate savings, but its sort of all OUR money. Whoever is doing whatever activity that needs money, pays. We are both self employed so need separate business bank accounts each but all the 'wage' part of our businesses is family money regardless of who earned it. I can honestly say that I don't even notice who pays what because we both just pay stuff - and all the direct debits and mortgage for our house come out of my account, simply because it was my house first and I already had all that set up. But till I read this thread I never even thought about it.

Hi Cardiffmum
I'm also currently living off an ISA lol but mainly as i'm over spending on baby toys, clothes etc! I must admit I'm not a huge fan of joint accounts myself having been the only contributer to one in a previous relationship so in a way I can understand his caution. However when I married dh i had to put my worries aside as I wouldnt have married someone I didnt trust!
But I also would hate to have to ask for money having been fiercely independent.What we do (and works well) Is both have seperate accounts which our private salaries are paid into and each pay a nominated amount into a joint bank account to cover mortgage/bills. I earn 3/4 dh's salary so pay 3/4 of his amount. That way we have both our names on the bills and contribute fairly and what we spend the rest of our salaries on are our business. It's a purely household account and I'm on M/L at the mo and so I'm not contributing but equally i'm not taking out of it either. I would still want my name on the account/bills, just because I may not contribute as much financially, I am still doing the work of several by washing ironing, cooking, cleaning, child rearing etc. Surely he couldnt object to that? I also get all the Child benefit - and when I go back to work part time we will qualify for tax credits - paid into my personal account so have a little extra each month. Would this be an option for you?

That just seems such a weird set-up, and I know I personally would find it very hurtful that I wasn't trusted. And not to even know how much money he has! We have also treated our money as joint - at first when I earned more, then when I earned less than him, and then when I earned nothing at all!

We prefer a joint account, but I can see how some people might like separate accounts with one joint 'housekeeping' account.

So what would happen if you just kept back a portion of your wages for your own needs and gave the rest to him and said 'there you go, you pay for everything and keep the rest'. Would he still keep on paying the bills, but without having to 'invoice' you every month?

I really think I couldn't function as part of a relationship like that. You say money is the only thing you disagree over, but it's such a fundamental part of your family life and as your child grows (or children!), it will become more of an issue if it isn't sorted now. I really hope you can find a solution.

Have you not got a bank account for yourself?
I don't have a joint account with dh, never had and doesn't look likely! Just can't be bothered to set it up.
Dh pays rent, council tax and what I call the big bills ny direct debit from his account and I have a few direct debits from my account for what I call the little bills - monthly water/gas/elec bill and the food (I work part time).
Any money left over is for me, including tax credits etc.

I don't think having a joint account suits everyone.

Cardiffmum, I dont know if you saw my earlier post, but I think the only way forward if you are to keep having separate accounts is to let ONE of you pay all the bills, and he other transfer money to the bill payer. It could be you, it could be him.
I like Portonovos suggestion that if you pay him, you can hold back a portion for yourself.

I must admit I am a little like your husband. I earn less than my dh now, but had huge bonuses every year from my previous job. I have been dipping into that over the last year so as for the family to make ends meet, but there is a decent chunk left. Not sure my dh knows how much it is. And sometimes I complain to him about his extravagance in buying personal stuff, as in my opinion we cannot afford it, bearing only our salaries in mind.

I am extremely worried about finances, as I know that we need "my" money to dip into for the foreseable future.

Maybe your dh too is worried? Maybe he sees outgoings and bank balances and are simply scared you will not be able to make ends meet in the future? Maybe there are things regards his savings he is not telling you so as not to worry you?

My dh could not believe how much I needed each month to cover our expenses, so I made a spreadsheet including nursery fees, cleaners bills, insurances, water, gas, electricity, mortgage, tv, sky, averge foodbills, basically everything. And he was shocked when he saw the figures for himself as he did not think living cost that much. He thoght I spent money on lunches, entertainment, and clothes for myself...

I dont think your setup is necesarily weird, but people manages their money in different ways, point is it has to suit both of you.

I think you need to work this out with your dh. Have a serious talk about income and outgoings, savings and earnings, what is the future scenario if you go back to work full time, what will the scenario be if you stop working, how will affect your overall financial situation if you have more children.

what a cock - i'd divorce him and take half of everything. - or threaten to.

As usual Custardo cuts to the chase.

Get a solicitor to explan to him that there ae only JOINT marital assets, there is no his and hers. Refer to Ray Parlour.

Before children we had 4 bank acounts; one each that our personal salaries got paid into respectively, a joint account and a joint savings account.

As DH earned far more than me we transferred money into the joint account to pay our bills and left ourselves X in our own bank accounts. Although he earnt far more than me we both had the same amount left in our personal accounts. This could be spent no questions asked.

Anything left at the end of the month in the joint bill paying account after the bills had been paid (most of it on direct debit) was transferred into the savings account for holidays, car service etc.

Now we have 2 children I am a sahm and I have a credit card in my DH's name that I buy food, anything that the children, DH or I need or want etc and it gets paid by DH at the end of the month.

At my age, I can make sensible decisions about what is ok to spend money on. We trust each other not to buy stupid things all the time (occasionally is good) and we have a policy that is something costs more than X we discuss it first.

I could never "ask" him for the money, I am not some 1950's housewife

I find it worrying that he let you live off "your" savings and that he is not transparent about money so much so that you do not know how much he has in savings and expects you to save up for a bathroom.

The percentage thing is also worrying that it seems so clinical, cold and efficient. Bet he wouldn't want it that way if you were the one earning more than he was.

Maybe the credit card thing might work, then he can see exactly where you spend it instead of it being potentially withdrawn as cash etc

but if you earn vastly different amounts how could you end up with the same amount of spending money? i'm all for the partner who earns more to pay for more - that's me in our house and it's what we do. but it wouldn't occur to me to ensure that dh had the same amount to spend each month as i do (in fact i think he has slightly more spending money each month - but i'm not sure). people are horrified at the notion of getting an allowance, but if your partner earns a lot more than you and you still end up with the same amount of spending money each month - you must be the recipient of a hefty subsidy. an allowance by any other name eh?

subsidy?

you see i think the point is - why are you working why are you doing any of this?

if your dh is working becuase he likes his money

and yo are working for the family ( int hehome)

then there is a disparity. i rather think this hinges on wehre the motives lie.

however i tin you need to emind him that actually half of everything is yours anyway should you divorce. Should his behaviour towards the famiyl not change - this is something you will seriously consider.

take some time to get hold of bank statements etc that he is trying to keep from you.

Do you get family tax credit? It is intended for the main carer of children in the family and it is your decision where the money should go. Ours goes into a separate account and I use it for presents, clothes, extras for me and the children. All bills come direct debit out of joint account. It is designed precisely for women like you, whose husbands take control of the money without sharing it fairly.

sorry custy, assets are not automatically split 50/50 when couples split up.

Haven't as yet read other posts but your situ is almost identical to mine.
Don't have an answer unfortunatly but it know how hard it is. I was same as you worked part time and while my husband payed for house and bills I paid for all shopping and child related things. This worked at first although I did use my credit card missed a payment and he went balistic at this. Said I was potentially losing the house
I now only work 1 day (sundays) and things are little better he now buys some shopping and I don't have childcare any more.
TBH he as present pays bulk of thingd now but like you I find it hard to ask for money for clothes, going out(once in blue moon)
He moans about me spending money on grapes and strawberries etc buthe goes out regulary and drinks. His answer to this I earn my money
Could go on but would just spoil my day.

The problem is not really about money, is it? It's about your husband's attitude to marriage and family and what that all means.

We are only getting his side of the story. At the Hurly house, my DH argues that he is more responsible with money. Which he is. But assuming we are getting the whole picture, it sounds like you are a newish parent and your DH hasn't come to terms with family life.

I could suggest relationship counselling, because you really shouldn't be a supplicant, but maybe you just need to sit down with him and go through a list of incomings and outgoings.

Also, if you do receive any working families tax credit, you surely have to declare what income from savings you have. How do you do this if you don't know how much he has?

If he is worried about you having a share of his savings in the event of a divorce does he not realise that he would have to declare it all any-way, so what's the point hiding it now?

Does he actually look after your child by himself, does he realise it is actually hard work and not a doddle

BTW I think his attitude is disgusting, does he realise what century we live in?

Why don't you show him this thread?! It might make him see that most people find his attitude quite shocking. It might also make him see how much this is bothering you. Or do you think it would get his back up more?

Personally I would think seriously about counselling - this will only get worse in the future and your resentment will increase. Best to nip it in the bud IMHO.