Does this count as self employed/working 16+ hours per week to qualify for the 30 hours childcare?

[dubbyoo]

Hoping some financially/tax savvy mumsnet terms can advise.

I've recently given up my part time job with a plan to "portfolio work" for a couple of years. AKA study part time, volunteer one day a week, sell all our junk on eBay, look after a flat that we rent out, do some freelance work, sell some home made crafts, manage the renovations on our house and do lots of diy and mum a lot with our 2 and 5yrd olds.

I'm looking at how this effects eligibility for the free childcare hours for my soon to be 3 year old and I'm gutted to find out that I'm no longer eligible as I'm not "employed" for the 16 hours minimum. My earnings from the various sources may well take me into the "earned the equivalent of 16 hrs a week on minimum wage", but only just. It's going to be a very frugal couple of years while retraining and doing some renovations and trialing whether I can make small amounts of money from art/craft things. Qualifying for the 30 hours free childcare is pivotal to the plan working!

So.. my question really is what counts as income to make me honestly eligible for joining the "tax free" childcare scheme and 30 hours funded nursery?

The government do give you a one year grace period when you register as self employed, so I'm hoping to do that for the time being.

As a self employed person, does rent from the buy to let count as part of my income for the 16 hours? I already do an end of year tax return for this but I'm guessing once I'm self employed, this will be a bit more complicated.

Background: partner's income (

Volunteering and studying I am pretty sure will not count.

You are exempt from the income requirement for the first 12 months (business start up) but I would question whether selling your junk on ebay or managing one buy to let would give you enough working hours.

When I was self employed I spent about 6-8 hours per week on marketing and accounts and 12 hours a week with clients.

"As a self employed person, does rent from the buy to let count as part of my income for the 16 hours? I already do an end of year tax return for this but I'm guessing once I'm self employed, this will be a bit more complicated. "

Not the whole rent but the profit you make should do, so the figure you list as profit once you have paid any mortgage, repairs, insurance etc on your tax return.

Following as I’m wondering about this too. Considering freelancing after mat leave with DC2 ends but not sure I can guarantee 16 hours of work a week at first. Have a self employed “hobby” type thing that I spend a fair bit of time on but only made £400 last tax year...

It's tricky isn't it? My craft/hobby stuff is nowhere near minimum wage. I'm expecting to earn less than £2k from it.

Selling all the junk in my house on eBay will hopefully earn me another £1-2k but previously I don't think I would have had to declare this as it's just selling old personal stuff, not buying new stuff to sell. If there is an hours/ free childcare benefit to declaring it then I would.

I'm hoping for £2-3k worth of freelance work per year if I can get this to work around my studies and childcare.

The fact that I'm technically not employed 16 hrs at minimum wage also means that my partner can't pay into the replacement for the childcare vouchers scheme which would be another blow as this would add another 20% to our nursery and after school club fees.

It’s income - you need to earn a minimum of £120 (or thereabouts) per week.

I am guessing you know already but in case you don't you will still be able to claim 15 hours even if you don't qualify for 30 hours.

Thanks, yes the 15 hours will definitely help but I really need the 30 to make the whole rest of the hustle work. With my first child the 30 free hours meant that the nursery fee dropped from almost £700 a month for 3 full days to £200ish per month which we used the old childcare less tax vouchers to pay, so only £160 really. If I could get that to work again somehow it would be amazing.

The "worked hours" for the rental income is probably less than 50 per year including interviewing tenants, doing DIY fixes, arranging tradespeople, admin etc. I'm really hoping the profit from this counts as income for part of the "equivalent of 16 hours per week" earnings. It's massively frustrating that I'd only have to work 8 hours a week in a job paying twice minimum wage and still qualify for the benefit.

Why don't you just get a small part time job to make up the hours. I don't think doing what are essentially hobbies ebay and DIY should be covered by free funding from the government. If not try and do this in the 15 hours.

Seriously... Ebaying can count towards eligibility for the free childcare hours?!

Well a friend of mine who is a stay at home mum runs a small business buying and selling on ebay. She sells other peoples stuff for a small commission or buys items in bulk and sells them on at a small profit.

But I don't really think just selling unwanted personal possessions wold really count.

I guess I'm asking is eligibility all about income or is it really about earnings if that makes sense.

Stop trying to play the system

It’s a bit of a piss take tbh.

I'm not expecting the government to fund my childcare so that I can spend time eBaying my stuff. I read your comment as quite harsh Raver84. I could get an extra part time minimum wage job to tick the relevant box but my question for mumsnet was about what ELSE might count as income to meet the income requirements to claim the childcare hours.

I'm hoping they will give me the 30 hours so that I can spend that time during the day doing my freelance work, going to college, doing unpaid placements and voluntary work. The craft and eBay income is squeezed into the evenings when the kids are in bed

Has anyone else had experience of meeting the income requirements through a mix of sources?

The rules were brought in to prevent hobby businesses.

I thought the whole point of the 30 hours was to keep women in the workforce as they then collect more tax revenue as it’s more beneficial to give someone on 40k a bit of discount as they pay more in tax. Someone earning 10k wouldn’t necessarily use the additional 15 hours as it’s TTO etc so not always cost effective.

True, it is playing the system but the system is bonkers.

Why should our family be ineligible for the tax free childcare because of the way we split our working hours? A family with 2 parents each working 16 hours a week would qualify, but a family with one parent working and one parent studying/volunteering/earning but earning less than minimum wage self employed would not qualify?

What is TTO Fancynancyclancy?

Stop trying to play the system

^OP you really are taking the loss.

You have chosen to study and volunteer. Why should the government fund your luxury choices??????

Comefromaway - why would the government want to discourage hobby businesses?

That scenario just doesn’t really happen in the real world, i went to the LA training on it. The vast majority of people who use it work ft or pt but need a childcare funder who offers extended hours. Many nurseries are open 50-51wks a yr, you only get funding for 38 weeks. Those 2 16 hour jobs need to pay very well to make outsourcing childcare worth it b

TTO - term time only which is 38 weeks I recall.

Selling your own stuff on ebay is not a job.

Also managing your rental property is not a job. I have more than one rental property and I don't spend 50 hours on all of them put together, so I think you are exaggerating.

You need to rethink your plan and get proper work for 16 hours a week

Letting of a rental property doesn't count as self-employment for tax purposes unless it's a furnished holiday let. I believe the same definition is used for tax credits and so the income from this wouldn't be taken into account for NWM purposes.

Selling your own possessions probably wouldn't count either if they particularly looked into it; buying to resell would.