AIBU To ask to better understand our financial position?

[TheatreMumma]

My husband committed to paying £2.6k in to our joint account each month in order to cover our joint household expenditure but for the last few months has been unable to meet this on time, he says due to changing jobs, taking a pay cut, and having other outgoings, and I covered this one month to help him catch up. I’m really confused as to how this has happened, given our joint income, and asked to see exactly what’s going in and out to better understand the situation, but he refuses to either discuss or disclose this.

A bit of background: my partner earns £80k p/a and, whilst I’ve always earned far less, I’ve taken a massive step back since having our son and am now able to earn just £6k p/a whilst juggling childcare. He pays £2.6k p/m in to our joint account to cover joint bills and then we each pay for our own cars, phones, clothes etc. I find it hard to cover this on my salary but manage with strict budgeting. It’s really upset me that he clearly sees what he earns as ‘his’ money and isn’t prepared to discuss how it’s spent. This is made all the more upsetting by the fact that, years ago, I gave him all my savings (tens of thousands) in order to help him with debt, something that I only found out about when bailiffs turned up while he was away.

What further complicates this issue, is that my husband will eventually take over a business and have substantially more income, at which point he says he will help and support me financially. I don’t dispute that he will do this, but I really want to address the here and now and work things out together, as a team.

Shall I just accept the situation as it is and be grateful for everything I have, or do you think it’s slightly unreasonable (and concerning) that I’m not allowed to know his / our current financial position?

Is he your husband or is he your partner? You called him both

I'd be very worried especially if you aren't married

He’s my husband - we’ve been together for 8 years and married for 4. In all other aspects he’s incredible and my soulmate, which is perhaps why I’m so unsettled by his attitude towards this.

Might be worth making him talk about it. With a history of hidden debts I'd be thinking he has got back into debt

It sounds very difficult.
In our marriage we had joint accounts, both opened each other's post, both had access to everything and knew every penny coming in and going out so I find it hard to understand couples with financial secrets. I did both our tax returns too so we both knew every single thing about money and spending.

Can't you ask to see the last 6 months of his bank statements for a start and that will show you where the money is going?
I earned more than my husband and never went part time and i am afraid that certainly protects you hugely - is it is possible you could go back to full time work and make sure the husband does his share of collection from nursery of the child etc.

If you gave him all your savings in the past perhaps if he is going to be so difficult now you should talk to him about wanting that gradually paid back to you if he is so keen to keep things separate although if he's not earning as much as you thought htat will be hard.

£80k assuming no student debt or pension is 4536 a month. In our marriage both our salaries went in the same account. In your case he is paying this 4536 into his own account and cannot manage 2600 to you. He might have a second secret family he is keeping or a gambling habit , all sorts. If he is bad with money may be all his salary should come into your account only and you dole him out some spending money each week and you deal with paying bills etc. Plenty of couples do that too

How far has his salary dropped, is he hiding that from you.

It dropped from 100k to 80k which I’m fairly sure he’s being honest about. We had a big discussion about how taking the new job would be worth the cut for so many reasons. I just want to work everything out on paper but cant do this without him disclosing his outgoings. He also says he doesn’t know exactly how much come in after tax and NI which I find really odd as does it not state this on pay slips? (I’m self employed so especially vigilant about everything).

I find it really hard to understand too and always assumed that, like my parents, everything would be shared. I’m not even asking for more money from him or for him to pay me back, I just want to have a clear picture of the situation. That way I can further understand why he can’t pay the commited amount and even help where possible, whether than means contributing more or being more frugal with our groceries. If I went back to work full time, my salary would only cover childcare so unfortunately I’d be no better off.

This is my fear and I suspect he feels that it will all be fine when he earns more in subsequent years, but I just can’t live with that kind of thinking. Which is, in turn, why I don’t think he’ll show me, despite me asking and expressing my concerns. So I’m really between a rock and hard place: ignore potential debt with him and hope for the best and know there’s nothing I can do to increase income from my side because I’m already working as much as I possibly can when family (not local) will help or our son is asleep. I’ve already coped with his debt once so I know I can do it again. What I struggle with is him taking a ‘what I earn is mine’ approach and shutting me out on this.

Reply below in the wrong place, apologies

I’d suspect debt, especially as you said he had paid off his debt with your money a few years ago. In my professional capacity I’ve seen it so many times, It’s amazing how people’s outgoings expand into their earnings, and if they like a bit of credit their credit commitments tend to reflect their earnings I.e. they take on more and more and more. A drop of £20k pa is a huge salary decrease for him, and it’s perfectly possible that he can no longer contribute the £2.6k because he has to pay his creditors their monthly payments.

Whatever the reason, it simply isn’t on that he is leaving you to pick up the shortfall on £6k a year.

I’d ask to see his credit reports, I suspect you’ll find the answer there, especially as he’s a bit secret squirrel about his finances.

Oh, and if it is debt, don’t help him out again unless you want to end up in the same situation again. Break the cycle.

I think you woud be unreasonable not to find out about your family finances. You need to see his bank statements and know about the outgoings. It feels very controling of him not to even discuss it with you,
However, you might need to be prepared to find he has incurred more debt.

He's hiding something, I struggle to fathom how he can be your soul mate but yet he leaves the family short??

I get separate finances work for some couples but when it's 80k v 6k why is it not all in one pot??

You need a long chat as even with a pay cut, he still has some £1900 to play with. It does not make sense, you need him to tell the truth and to see paperwork.

He also needs to commit to paying £3100 per month so the current bill commitment plus £500 debt repayment to you.

I would save any spare money if I was you as his spending and history of debt is very worrying.

He must know it is really really simple in two minutes on a net pay calculator to find out his net pay and I pased it above - £4563 a month unless he has a student loan and I suppose he might have a child support payment to a hidden child coming off his salary. It is possible he contributes to a pension and he might get health cover but except for that he will be getting about 4500 a month.

It is interesting tyhat these days nothing comes on paper (although I still get paper bank statements on purpose as I like it); so it is harder to go to the paper pay slips file and bank statements files and tax return files we always had to check things (I suppose secret type people would always have locked those up or kept them in their safe).

If you ever were to split up the courts look at both your debts now and your cash now and will not look at the fact he repaid your debt in the past, and then divide the net figure between you starting at 50/50 but possibly more to the lower earner - sometimes a lot more depending on the case. So the old debt you paid off for him is not something in England were you to part that you may ever be compensated for at all which is why I'd quite like him to recognise that and start paying it back even if the sum paid back is put in trust for your children to try to keep it away from him on a divorce (although even then some trusts for children can be used). You can do a kind of post nuptial agreement where you both agree in writing certain things about finances although that will not necessarily be legally binding later and they are not often done; that might at least have in writing now recognition of the fact you gave all that money to pay off his earlier debts.

can you do an equifax credit search on him and to be on the safe side a £3 Land Registry search of who owns yours and his home if you own one and finally a Companies House search on his name or varients of it just to check if he is the director of any secret company beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

As he is your husband, he made vows. One of those was “With all my worldly goods I thee endow”.
He doesn’t get to be secretive with your joint marital finances.
Do you know the reason for his debts, that you paid off for him in the past? Is he a gambling addict, a drug user, or incompetent at financial management?
You have an absolute right to see his current financial position, you’re his wife for goodness’ sake!
I would put an end to the Mrs nice guy role and demand to see his bank and credit card statements and his pay slips. Then sit down with him and thrash out a joint budget and (if necessary again) a debt repayment plan.

Why don't you have a joint account where you both have access to view all incoming and outgoings ? If you have no access and are not working, you are financially vulnerable, especially because you have given him all your savings. I would seriously go back to work and secure your financial future. He is hiding something. How long are you prepared to wait for his disclosure ? Also he can edit documents, so be careful what he shows or tells you. If he earns such a big salary, why is he struggling to pay into a joint account ? Secondly, if you are in UK claim child benefit, it helps to pay your NI towards your state pension

You paid off tens of thousands of pounds of his debt and now he's begrudging you his share of the household bills? That's not on and I would be doing some serious shouting if I were you. He can't have it both ways - either you are a joint financial entity (which you paying his debts suggests!) or his money is his own and not for you to question.

When I explain to him that I cannot make the figures add up and can I therefore see them, he says that the reason he's struggling to keep up have been due to some repayments from the previous debt; high car insurance (a lorry drove in to him and wrote his car off but as there was no cctv, the other insurers refused liability) and resting on his laurels since I covered the previous month's payment (which is frankly irresponsible and disrespectful) and that he has been investing in the business (which I don't think should happen until all our household bills are covered). In some ways I'm satisfied with these excuses, but what I cannot handle is still being unable to look at the accounts and see this for myself and help us to work things out, and the attitude that the money that I support him to earn is his alone and not for me to see or pass judgement on.

@Babdoc - conversations just result in a stalemate and he says that he's sorry I feel this way. It's infuriating.
@m0veOntheG0 - we have a joint account for all joint bills and then separate accounts where each of our own salaries is paid in to. The problem is that he's not paying in to the joint account which is where I would normally manage the majority of our joint funds from. It's some relief to me that I have a separate account for my own tiny income. Going back to work doesn't help me as my income alone would only just cover childcare, if that, so I'd still be left with nothing, and I can't claim child benefit because of his salary.
@Omeletteandbeans - he argues that I voluntarily helped him pay off his debt (!) and I don't think he's begrudging paying his share, rather that he can't for some reason. What he is begrudging me is the right to see exactly what 'his' incomings and outgoings are.

Unfortunately English law does not entitle you to see it. in one case called Imerman the wife looked at the husband's emails (hacked in or her brthers did) and the court said you can look at your spouse's information if you have an open agreement to that - as I did with my husband - we could even open each other's post, both always looked at the tax return of the other, saw and filed each other's pay slips, nothing secret at all. That is exactly how my parents did it too and presumably their parents. However the court said if instead you both keep things secret from each other that's fine too and in that case there is no right to force open a draw or hack in.

OP, if I was in your shoes I think I’d deliver an ultimatum. He comes clean with the financial details, or I’d sue for divorce and go for the maximum maintenance payout you can possibly secure.
At the moment he’s treating you with complete contempt. You’re not a child, you’re his wife and he cannot possibly justify keeping you in the dark about the family income. You gave up a paid career to raise his kids - you save him the cost of childcare and actually enable him to work at all. He owes you for that as well as the debts you paid for him.
I’d be deeply worried that he is just using you, with no regard for your needs or peace of mind. Who knows how much debt he’s concealing this time?

Just to clarify, there’s definitely nothing sinister like drugs, gambling, or illegitimate families going on (he genuinely works too hard to have time for any of that! And we both have the find my friends app so I can work out when to get dinner on and can confirm he spends all his time in the office.) One thing he’s done in the past is try to max out pension and ISA contributions for our son (so he’s not exactly a monster), I just don’t know why he won’t let me see exact figures for everything so that I can have a full understanding of where everything is and what goes in and out. It’s not bothered me much until now, when he can’t pay the basic 2.6k and won’t fully share why.

OP I think it sounds like he doesn't treat finances as part of a partnership. I would find that unacceptable. I think you need to state clearly to him that complete transparency is vital.

Even if there's nothing sinister what if something happened to him? You would have no idea of the true financial picture

He must have payslips so I don't think I believe that he doesn't know how much he earns a month. You need to both sit down and work out how much you each contribute and your outgoings. Does he have other outgoings and debt you don't know about and he's trying to hide. And never be too sure there is nothing else going on. Some people are very good at hiding it.

In your position I'd be especially annoyed that you paid of huge amounts towards his debt. So he really is being entirely selfish and secretive. Not sure if I could stay with somebody under those circumstances. I'd think they were hiding something.

at which point he says he will help and support me financially

That worries me as

1. it isn’t just about supporting you financially, it’s about supporting his family financially
2. he’s expecting you to support him, you and your children financially on £6k per year

I’d issue him one of two ultimatums

1. you’re going back to work full time where nursery fees will be split as a % of earnings, pick ups, drops off, child sick days and housework is split 50/50
2. you divorce him and his financials will be aired through a court