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Who's being greedy here? MIL's legacy

66 replies

PieceofKate · 12/09/2018 14:21

Apologies in advance for the loooong post. It's complicated. My absentee brother in law wants to penalise us for not getting him his inheritance fast enough.

DP has a brother – let’s call him Bob – who lives in the US. He's been there for 30 years, has a career and a family, and has rarely visited the UK.

In 2014, my MIL (elderly, losing her sight, no longer wanted to be responsible for crumbling home) sold her house and moved in with me, my DP and our daughter. It was a joint decision, as with progressive blindness her care needs were obviously going to increase. She lived a 2-hour drive away so popping in regularly was never going to work.

It wasn't an easy decision; DP and his mum had never got on well but there was nobody else. It was incredibly difficult getting her packed up and out of her house. She was a hoarder, and DP and I were going down every weekend for MONTHS parking our then 3 year old DD in front of DVDs, surrounded by rusty nails and weedkiller, sorting through endless drifts of paper and junk.

Anyway. We bought a property together – most of deposit paid by MIL, mortgage by me and DP.

Her money (less £20k which she kept as cash) went on the deposit and renovations. We built her a lovely annexe and continued to develop the property as a whole after her money was gone. We also the mortgage, bills maintenance etc. It was a bit of a wreck and we've done a lot to it.

We all lived here together until MIL's death in October 2017. Meanwhile she was INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to live with. She and DD had a good relationship and for both of them it was a positive. But to her children (and me by extension) she could be a nightmare and both DP and I ended up on antidepressants. I became suicidal towards the end. It was literally that bad – and the guilt of thinking we would either have to move her back out again, or go mad, was horrendous. Her final illness was quick, and before that she seemed healthy and strong enough to go at least another decade.

Anyway. Enter Bob. From the start we made it clear both to MIL and Bob that although she was technically gifting DP all of her money (couldn’t get joint ownership at her age so the house is in my name and his only), she still rightfully owned 36% of the property as a whole (the percentage she invested at the start).

We said that after she died, we would get the house valued and we would agree to pay Bob half of whatever her 36% stake was then worth (regardless of us paying all bills and upkeep and spending on further development). We made sure all of this was in writing.

MIL became terminally ill and came home to be nursed in her own place. Over the course of the next six weeks or so we basically cared for her ourselves, with a couple of daily visits from nurses who washed her. She had a colostomy bag which I dealt with entirely except when the nurses were here.

We fitted all this around full-time work and looking after our (by this time) 6-yr-old.

Bob came over for a couple of weeks to help, and we talked a lot about how she’d been. He and DP realised that their mum had been bending the truth to both of them for decades, driving a wedge between them. They each thought the other was her favourite son. They each thought the other had said hurtful things that he really hadn’t. As a result a good decade of semi-estrangement started to heal.

So now she is gone, God rest her basically decent but bloody infuriating soul.

It’s been 11 months since she died and we’ve been on a rollercoaster trying to work out whether we will have to sell up to pay Bob back, or not. There were no timeframes in the will and we never discussed them, but back in April I lost my job and we thought, that’s it, we’re toast. We told Bob we were selling. But then we looked at the market and realised we would struggle to get back what we’d spent. And the thought of moving out of our home after everything else, and putting DD through more upheaval was horrible.

So we went back to Bob and said we wanted to try to avoid selling in a bad market. We said we were confident we could raise the money by spring 2019 to pay him back. (That will be 18mo after she died).

He didn’t really respond to this, and never gave any indication of wanting the money urgently.

Wanting to get things sorted, we wrote out a proposal for him, suggesting that in appreciation of him waiting we would get the solicitor to pay Bob all of the money from MIL’s bank accounts (about £25k) up front to help him with cash flow. (We’d take our half off what we paid him for the house.)

We also said that we would guarantee that should Brexit cause house to prices slip so far that the house is worth less than we’ve all invested in it, he’ll still get half of her original stake.

In his response Bob didn’t acknowledge this, or the offer of the cash, but simply asked us to also guarantee any slippage in exchange rates between Sterling and the US dollar between now and next spring when raise the money.

DP is enraged and their relationship is in tatters again. Bob has never acknowledged any of the work we did moving her out, any of the suffering (he knows, I told him) that we went through over the last few years, or any of the money we’ve spent developing and maintaining the property that he has a share in.

To not even mention that, but to ask for even more???

His response (very much on the high horse) is to say that not insisting we sell last April (6 months after MIL died) was his way of acknowledging everything we have done, and that he feels perfectly justified in asking us to underwrite the UK economy in return for the delay.

He’s acting as though DP has borrowed money from him. I suppose technically you could argue he has. But morally? Legally?

If you’ve made it to the end of this post, thank you! Please let me know what you think of this mess.

OP posts:
shaggedthruahedgebackwards · 12/09/2018 23:12

Although I sympathise with what you have gone through caring for MIL, that doesn't change the fact that you knew when MIL updated her will that on her death Bob would need to be paid half of MIL's agreed stake in the property

If you felt that all the factors you have outlined in the OP should reduce Bob's % of the legacy then you should have discussed this with MIL and Bob at the time the Will was being drawn up

If you didn't have the money in the bank to pay Bob his share when MIL died then you must have realised it would be necessary to sell the property

pallisers · 12/09/2018 23:17

but charging for nursing seems like you'd only be doing that because you're angry.

right. As opposed to Bob only doing fuck all for his difficult mother because he's lazy and uninvolved and knows the OP is picking up the pieces.

pallisers · 12/09/2018 23:21

Beneficial ownership doesn’t need to be established by deed though, and everyone agrees on what share she had. The Will is also good evidence of this unfortunately.

agreed - but bob would need to prove it. the property is in the names of OP and her DH. So bob getting his half of his mother's estate (less the 25k they have already released to him) could depend on him suing for it in the absence of a legal agreement/charge on the property. Suing people who are trying hard to give him his share even though he took no part in minding his mother which would have cost her estate thousands if OP's husband wasn't around. Bob is cutting off his nose to spite his face.

SD1978 · 12/09/2018 23:27

Don't give him the bank account money- it's part of the estate and a joint asset. You need to find out if the work you have done to improve the value of the property with no financial input from MIL affects the initial stake amount. Stop offering anything. Talk to a property lawyer. I'm not sure why your lawyer is allowing you to keep making gestures to your BIL which are not in your favour or equal. The relationship has broken down irretrievably. He's had nothing to do with his mother for years, he wants the inheritance. Keep it formal and make sure it's fair.

Pitapotamus · 12/09/2018 23:28

It sounds really complicated and it will probably be difficult for everyone to feel like they have had a “fair deal” at the end of it.

In my mind the answer is to get a valuation for the house as at the date of death and then work out in pounds Sterling what bob’s share is. Then convert that into US dollars at the rate apppicable around the time he should have reasonably been paid his inheritance (probably around 6 months after the date of death). That is the sum he should receive (in US dollars) when you get round to repaying him. You should possibly also pay him interest at, say, the HMRC official rate from the time he should have received his inheritance till the time you actually pay it.

I suppose what you have received in return for caring for your MIL is the opportunity to get on the property ladder at that level by virtue of the deposit she paid towards the property.

headinhands · 12/09/2018 23:28

I'll also be charging him for nursing his mother

She could have gone into social care. It was your decision to move her in. How much did her previous house sell for? How much was your original house worth?

Haireverywhere · 13/09/2018 03:18

Sorry I was half asleep. It's understandable you'd be angry obviously. I meant if you are saying that out of anger you need to know if it's legal to charge fees without agreeing that before as I don't know anything about that.

ChishandFips33 · 13/09/2018 06:24

I also suspect it's only the value of her 'investment' at the time of her death that needs identifying

I hope you get it sorted quickly

fabulousathome · 13/09/2018 08:25

Could you rent out the annex?

You could give Bob half the rent for a specified number of years? You would need a solicitor to draft a contract.

twoundertwo54321 · 13/09/2018 08:37

I think this is a very complicated situation but I do think you are mixing two issues in together because (understandably) you are feeling emotional about it.

The fact that you cared for your MIL has nothing to do with this situation. If you feel you should be remunerated for that you should have had an agreement at the time. It was your choice to help her and it sounds like it was a terrible time but you can't hold your BIL to account over something you and your husband willingly did.

The money must be separate of all these issues and you agreed terms with the MIL and now you have to stick to those terms.

It's silly saying we could have acted immorally but didn't (ie at the time of her making her will) and making it seem like you have taken the high road. You just did the right thing and the thing you totally should have done, that's not something to be praised for. He is entitled to that money. You are letting emotion cloud this and ta quite OTT.

Now his being 'unreasonable' is another matter. That does sound like you need to stop being dramatic (saying you will
Sell) and be realistic with him to come up with a plan to pay him back. I'm surprised you never considered this at the time of agreeing to put his inheritance into your home to be honest.

I'm sorry you are going through all this OP it sounds like a really tough time all round and I really do hope you come to a resolution soon that means you stay in the house and your brother in law gets what's owed.

crimsonlake · 13/09/2018 08:51

Sounds very complicated and now BIL wants his share. Assuming you always knew the outcome would be that you may have to sell upon your MIL's death but you still went ahead with this set up? My BIL'S mum died recently and his middle aged brother lived with her. It would appear both his parent's have died without leaving a will, the mortgage is paid off and his brother clearly has no intention of selling the house and plans to remain there. Although they really could do with the money I know they will not force the issue.

MaybeDoctor · 13/09/2018 08:53

I don’t think Bob is totally unreasonable and he has waited a long time, quite patiently.

Ignore the annoying aspect of him asking about exchange rates. Just try to put it to one side - it is his choice to live in America.

The value in sterling at the time of her death is what he should receive, plus any interest according to the rules around probate. It is then his choice to convert it into whatever currency he chooses. The more rationally you can handle this, the higher the chance of your DP ever seeing Bob again.

SassitudeandSparkle · 13/09/2018 09:58

Just to add that IME (not legally qualified but DH has been an executor a number of times) interest wouldn't be due until about a year has passed. Estates can take a long time to wind up if complicated, and I'm assuming that your DH is the executor in this case.

I would recommend getting some legal advice if it puts your mind at rest. But I still think that you owe Bob 18% of the value of your house at the time of your MIL's death.

Cin3mama3 · 13/09/2018 13:17

Just a suggestion, if there is equity in the house, can you release this to pay the money owed from the will ?

SassitudeandSparkle · 13/09/2018 13:51

Although increasing the mortgage would be the easiest option, I assume this is not possible for various reasons otherwise it would have been done straightaway. The OP lost her job at one point, which would make remortgaging difficult.

IHTQUESTION · 08/10/2018 21:47

OP what happened with grasping Bob in the end?

Fair play to you for looking after your MIL. Not everyone would do it...

The exchange rate compensation is just mad...! What was he thinking?!

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