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Original poster

MIL being forced to give up 15y tenancy for underoccupying - any housing experts?

101 replies

NorfolksGiven · 13/03/2018 23:14

Hello,

My MIL is splitting up from her husband of 27 years (his decision) and whilst in conversation with her social LL (council house but run by different company iyswim) they have said that because she is now underoccupying her property they would not let her be the sole tenant. The house is 3 bedroom and she has lived there around 15 years.

He was pension age, she won’t be for another 9 years. Previously he was getting pension credit (joint claim) and his SRP full HB and c tax.

She is now about to claim UC and is looking for a job ( previously cared for him not worked for over 20 yrs)

Basically what I’m asking is if she has any legs to stand on in challenging this decision and if not, will her authority have any duty to rehouse her etc? Seems so crappy when none of it is what she wants.

Appreciate any help Smile

OP posts:
Zampa · 15/03/2018 07:20

The idea of re-assessing on a regular basis..... that you get social housing on a 3 or 5 year rolling basis is a sound one, indeed an excellent one not a dumb notion

No - it's definitely dumb. How much do you think this reassessment regime would cost? What if mistakes were made (and Crapita or whichever outsourced body were chosen would make mistakes)?

Families are living in over crowded accommodation because of govt policy and a shortage of social housing not because some old dears over-occupy.

However, I agree that if OP's MIL were to be offered suitable alternative accommodation, she should consider moving.

theeyeofthestormchaser · 15/03/2018 07:56

Does your MIL have a single retired friend (of either sex) that she could persuade to move into her house with her? If they then present as a couple to the housing association she could keep her house.

Shock

Really, spare time? You're suggesting that MIl lie to the council? And why should taxpayers pay for her to do that??

InMySpareTime · 15/03/2018 08:09

If a friend moves in, that also potentially frees up housing, and would mean the house is more fully occupied.
Would also mean two people, instead of both living alone, are together to support each other.
The only reason to present as a couple is because housing rules don't allow friends to share housing.

mydogmymate · 15/03/2018 08:25

I live in a HA house in a street of 34 houses and there are 10 houses that are under occupied here. It's a disgrace!
I had a 3 bedroom house that I gave up for a 2 bed because I only have one dc at home now. My old was was taken by someone who had dc and suffered domestic violence and was living in a refuge. This is how social housing is supposed to work.

DaphneduM · 15/03/2018 08:28

It seems to be that 'the system' needs a massive shakeup. So you can have one pensioner and one non pensioner who can survive by the non pensioner not working and the pensioner having joint pension credit, full housing and council tax benefit. Not sure what type of 'caring' she has been doing, as previously stated it could just be the normal housework etc. rather than a full on caring role. I do have sympathy for your mother-in-law, she has been completely infantilised by 'the system' and the state providing everything for them both. If I sound hard, I'm sorry. But I received our council tax bill yesterday - up by 6.3% in total, to be paid in full from pension income. As far as your mother-in-law is concerned, I suggest she has a look at WASPI and see what some women are contending with, as a result of the government delaying their pension. Things out there are very grim for an awful lot of women. However, as many have said, she will be ok, as a secure tenant. The state will provide for her.

RedRedDogsBeg · 15/03/2018 08:30

People are still saying what they think this woman should be offered

No!!! You don't get 'offered' any exchange or alternative.... she will have to chase it herself and persue her own exchange!!

If she has anything about her that's what she will do

MrsSchadenfreude · 15/03/2018 08:35

My cousins grew up on a really nice small council estate - 3 and 4 bed semis, all around a big green area where the kids would play out. Full of families. It’s now full of old people, either couples or single people who have been widowed. These were clearly built as family homes - surely the old people who live there now should be helped to find somewhere smaller to live, so that these homes could be used for families again?

PoshPenny · 15/03/2018 08:47

I'm sorry that this is happening to your MIL, but surely you can see that the house IS going to be under occupied whilst families are crying out for 3 bed houses to rent.

I'm pretty certain they will be very helpful in helping her find new smaller accommodation as they are desperate to get the larger houses back.

My understanding is they changed the law a few years back and the old secure tenancies of the house for life have changed, and now the undertaking is to provide "suitable accommodation" instead. All part of getting the 3/4 bed houses with gardens back for young families, it's not about putting people out on the streets to achieve that.

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 08:48

Actually the way of reassessing if circumstances are still the same is done by the housing officer who manages the property. There are various common sense ways that is done. So it wouldn't cost anything over the usual salary of staff. I think this lady really needs to talk to the landlord again, get in writing what is the issue and take it from there.Lots of the comments on here are not helpful and could get the lady into a huge mess. I feel we don't know the whole story and would be interested to know more of the whys and wherefore.How many people who are commenting have worked in local government as housing officers?

RedRedDogsBeg · 15/03/2018 08:51

have worked?

That's the problem. Housing policies and guidelines all change so regularly it's really not helpful to have 'ex housing officers' posting how it used to be either!

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 09:04

I worked very recently in housing, it hasn't changed that much since I left. If your read my comments I think you will find them sensible and practical.As I have stated, we need more information and that is not forthcoming.

Oldsu · 15/03/2018 09:33

PoshPenny 'I'm pretty certain they will be very helpful in helping her find new smaller accommodation as they are desperate to get the larger houses back. ' oh if only this was true

My Dad lives in a three bed HA house in an area that was on a TV programme called how to get a council house highlighting the problems that people had getting housed and the terrible shortage of housing for families so you WOULD think his HA would help him to downsize when he would be quite happy to.

10 years ago when my Mum was alive his HA had a scheme where older residents could downsize, they would find a suitable property for the residents, find a family who needed the property, fund moving costs and give a grand for every room the resident gave up, at the time my Mum didn't want to move so they stayed.

Fast forward to now , Mum died and Dad decided to take up the offer, only they don't do it any more, Dad has been told to go on the home swapper site and find his own swap, great except that he doesn't have a computer so once a week my nephew comes and gets him and they go on the site together.

He gets a lot of interest but the prospective tenants for his house keep getting rejected by the HA, either because they do not qualify for a 3 bed, or (as in 2 cases) have rent arrears so are not allowed to swap .

So my dad stays put in a house too big for him and quite expensive to keep warm he pays full rent without HB so he would love a cheaper/smaller property with smaller utility bills, maybe one day

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 09:39

Has your dad applied for a transfer, without the additional financial help being on offer?

alpineibex · 15/03/2018 09:43

I didn't think they could do that. Grandparents have a 2-bed council house, but only use 1 bedroom. Guess it depends.

alpineibex · 15/03/2018 09:54

I don't care if a young couple buy a 10 bedroom house or a family of 5 buy a two bedroom house because that's all they can afford as I have no moral right to dictate what they want to do with their own money.

This is true, however if all the 1-3 member families start buying all the 4-8 bedroom houses, they'll be no 4-8 bedroom houses for the 4-8 member families. People really should just buy what they need.

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 09:56

Suggest you or dad ask if he can transfer, if he only needs 1 bed he could well be offerred transfer.

Oldsu · 15/03/2018 10:09

LoislovesStewie8 they didn't offer him a transfer he has to find his own swap that's all the 'help' he has been offered - if they offered him a transfer and it was suitable he would have gone for it.

StormTreader · 15/03/2018 10:10

What people do with their own money is their own business. If they can't afford the house they want they can save up, change jobs, cut other expenses etc because those decisions only affect them. The argument that "some working people get to buy big houses so everyone should be able to just decide to have one" is clearly ridiculous.

When you rely on sharing a pot of resources that have to benefit everyone then you have to try and share them out in the way that benefits everyone as much as possible, and sometimes that means that people don't get to choose what they prefer and let everyone else go wanting. If you had someone who wanted to eat steak and lobster every night, would you give them a higher food budget and leave another family going hungry because of it?

Viviennemary · 15/03/2018 11:51

Buying your own house is completely different from renting a Council or Housing association house. You can buy a 25 bedroom mansion and live alone in isolated splendour. But you can't sit tight in a Council or HA house with more bedrooms than you need because it's a public asset and should go to people most in need. I think all council housing should be means tested and if you can afford your own house then your tenancy should be terminated.

Original poster
NorfolksGiven · 15/03/2018 15:13

Thank you for he helpful replies Smile there is some good advice and ideas we hadn't thought of.

The think about under occupancy is yes pensioners are exempt. So it is pensioners filling up the family sized homes after their family have moved out and grown up etc.

Anyway just for info - she is not saying she is ‘entitled’ to anything we just wanted to be sure of her options because the guy from
Housing point blank said no way you’ll need to give notice ASAP which she tried to do the next day(!!!) and the housing officer said no you don’t do that. Someone is going out to speak to them both and it will be decided if she can stay and if not what options there are for her.

For context, she gave up her job years ago when he became ill to look after him. He is planning on moving county lo live with his sister and bid for a bungalow over there at some point - I think his health will get him in a priority group?
So yes her life is in tatters and all we wanted to know was more about her options. If she was a pensioner she wouldn’t be subject to underoccupying rules. She is looking for a job but it is difficult as she is unskilled and out of he market for long.

Thanks for the ideas Flowers

OP posts:
NeverTwerkNaked · 15/03/2018 15:38

Totally sympathise with her predicament, I’m sure we all do. Key is she (and you) get accurate advice, even if it is not what she wants to hear. But I think you appreciate that

Original poster
NorfolksGiven · 15/03/2018 15:51

Yes I do thank you Smile she has a lot going on. The complicate things further she is a JW and is facing a panel to decide when and if she should be allowed back into her congregation because you have to be a wholesome family person and divorce isn’t allowed. With the added implication that she hasn’t ‘tried hard enough’ at her marriage. Even though she’s repeatedly been trying to get help for years but he wouldn’t engage (also a JW) Hmm

Angry
OP posts:
halfwitpicker · 15/03/2018 15:55

That's 'religion' for you

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 17:59

As I said, you need to be advised in writing exactly what is going on. What would be offered to MIL if she can't stay in the property, and could she afford to stay given the bedroom tax. Under the circumstances moving to a smaller property might actually help her.

Magpiemagpie · 15/03/2018 19:39

Where I live a three bed council /HA house is around £90 a week
But a one bed flat is -around £115 a week
This is because the 1 beds are new builds and so more expensive to rent
So she could be worse off by moving - my neighbour definatly was worse off moving from a three bed to a 1 bed