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Original poster

MIL being forced to give up 15y tenancy for underoccupying - any housing experts?

101 replies

NorfolksGiven · 13/03/2018 23:14

Hello,

My MIL is splitting up from her husband of 27 years (his decision) and whilst in conversation with her social LL (council house but run by different company iyswim) they have said that because she is now underoccupying her property they would not let her be the sole tenant. The house is 3 bedroom and she has lived there around 15 years.

He was pension age, she won’t be for another 9 years. Previously he was getting pension credit (joint claim) and his SRP full HB and c tax.

She is now about to claim UC and is looking for a job ( previously cared for him not worked for over 20 yrs)

Basically what I’m asking is if she has any legs to stand on in challenging this decision and if not, will her authority have any duty to rehouse her etc? Seems so crappy when none of it is what she wants.

Appreciate any help Smile

OP posts:
BishopBrennansArse · 14/03/2018 20:43

What @IWannaSeeHowItEnds and @Babyroobs said.

RedRedDogsBeg · 14/03/2018 20:55

so who pays for her to live there then?

ShiftyMcGifty · 14/03/2018 20:55

“she shouldn't lose out because of it.”

So you feel she is entitled to a 3 bedroom house until she dies? If she rented or owned, she’d have to sell and move. Why is it different here? Because she doesn’t need to pay the mortgage/market rate rent?

LoislovesStewie · 14/03/2018 20:58

I don't lack compassion but having worked in housing for most of my adult life I understand that there are rules/policies/legislation to be followed and that often that doesn't sit well with what the customer would like to happen. My job was to think of likely scenarios and explain what might well happen based on my knowledge and experience. I have asked some questions on here so that I could try to give better advice but no replies have been given to them.I have given replies as I would have done if I was advising a customer, and am honestly concerned that she could be worsening her circumstances by digging her heels in . Would anyone advocating that be prepared to offer her housing if she becomes homeless?

RedRedDogsBeg · 14/03/2018 21:00

nobody seems willing to say who should pay for this lady to live in a 3 bed house?

GriefLeavesItsMark · 14/03/2018 21:03

Do you mean your mil was a carer because her ex was disabled, or that she stayed at home and did the house work?

LoislovesStewie · 14/03/2018 21:03

The point is if she claims HB as she is not working then she will have to find 25% of the rent herself because of the bedroom tax as I keep saying so she could be stuffed.

RedRedDogsBeg · 14/03/2018 21:19

exactly.....so where does the extra money come from?

if she's got to claim benefits she will have to claim jobseekers allowance....and will get council tax paid

i think thats it these days!

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 14/03/2018 21:19

If she can find that 25% then choice to stay should be hers. Most people would move if offered something smaller but in equivalent condition to their existing home and in the same area - I don't think people hang on to houses which are too big unless what they are being offered instead is not good.
My parents happily swapped a 3 bed for a 2 on the same street once my brother left home. They'd downsize again if offered a 1 bed that was nice enough. What you can't do is expect people to give up homes they have invested time and money in and offer them some shit tip, miles from where they currently live. Often people would like to move because a smaller home is more manageable but there aren't appropriate 1 bedroom places to offer people, so they stay in houses they don't need/want.

LoislovesStewie · 14/03/2018 21:23

If she's on JSA OR Universal Credit I don't see that happening, do you?

BackforGood · 14/03/2018 22:23

I'm not seeing a lack of empathy. I'm seeing a huge amount of empathy for the young families currently being put up in B&Bs or hostels or with 6 people living in a 1 bedroomed flat.
The idea of re-assessing on a regular basis..... that you get social housing on a 3 or 5 year rolling basis is a sound one, indeed an excellent one not a dumb notion. If, at that reassessment, your needs remain the same - young family, children all at home, needing consistency of school etc - then you get the house for another 3 years until the next assessment, and again, you may well get it at the next one, and the next one but at the point when the dc are grown, independent adults, leaving home, then the family home should go to another family and a couple can have a 1 bed flat.
To the poster who said about adaptions for disabilities, the reassessment would show that you still need that home, so you wouldn't be moved on and the adaptations wouldn't be a waste. Posters aren't suggesting people only be allowed to stay for a year or 3 years, posters are suggesting that there are regular checks to ensure limited stock is matched to need as best as can happen.

NoSquirrels · 14/03/2018 22:31

I don’t know about the legalities, but the first PP on this thread who advised trying to look at it from the POV of a fresh start is the best advice.

Regardless of it being social housing, for most people in that situation, they would need to move. My MIL and FIL got divorced late in life, and had to sell their lovely 4-bed they’d lived in for 20+ years. It wasn’t MIL’s choice fir her marriage to fail and the house be sold. But in order not to be homeless, the house had to be sold and both MIL & FIL bought flats to live in.

So it’s not a social housing issue, really - just a sad situation where everything must change.

Thehogfather · 14/03/2018 22:45

Agree with lois and backfor.

Discretionary housing payments are only meant to be short term, and with the proviso the tenant can't simply move to more affordable accommodation, and that isn't in line with actively trying to retain a 3 bed.

Realistically, even when she finds a job, after years out of employment it's unlikely she'll waltz straight into a job where she isn't still getting a hb top up, let alone one where she can comfortably afford even a ha 3bed. So she'll still need a discretionary payment to top up the hb, which again isn't compatible with refusing a smaller property.

As to staying in the same area, that's exactly why it's morally right that there are exemptions to bedroom tax. But working age people can't practically expect the same exemption simply because in an ideal world it would be nice.

scrabbler3 · 14/03/2018 23:14

I honestly don't think that fighting it, digging her keels in, refusing to move etc will do her any good. She won't succeed and will end up exhausted. She needs to change her mindset and regard a smaller place as more manageable and cost-effective, and indicative of a fresh start. Getting a job will help too.

MessySurfaces · 14/03/2018 23:31

Who should pay for it? Social housing is damn cheap, once it's built. It generally makes a profit for the council.
Not in the scale that selling on or renting out former council housing does, of course.
To those wringing their hands about the poor families overcrowded, yet unconcerned about people who own larger houses than they need- you do realise that they could let them out- via housing associations even!-. So I don't see why they are any different to OP's MIL, morally.

Viviennemary · 14/03/2018 23:38

I don't know if she can dig her heels in and stay. If they offer her a reasonable alternative then she could consider it. But these days it's everyone for themselves so if she doesn't want to move she should refuse.

RedRedDogsBeg · 14/03/2018 23:41

And if she refuses who will pay for her to stay in a house which is too big for her?

Where will the cash come from?

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 06:30

I've really got to comment about the handwriting about overcrowded families. As I keep saying the facts are that the system works like that, if larger properties don't become available then no-one can move . There would be a total log jam , families in b&b&b accommodation for ever. Council tax would rise to pay for shortfalls there and people would complain that way. What I find really depressing about this thread is that I have over 35 years experience working in local authorities , in housing and on the limited information available I am trying to offer sensible practical advice which is clearly being trashed by some. People are making statements which could be catastrophic for the person concerned. As I have said she needs to think carefully about what is on offer, and realise that paying 25% of the rent out of her JSA is not sustainable for long . Sorry but I am done, it seems that comparable doesn't work with some.

AJPTaylor · 15/03/2018 06:40

lets face it though, the issue is that there are not enough 1 bed flat/houses in any condition for the bedroom tax thing to work. if person is living in their family home, nice 3 bed home that they have decorated/improved/nutured for years and are told they have to move its fair enough if its to a nice sheltered complex or similar. but it isnt because it cant be because there arent enough.

TheTab · 15/03/2018 06:48

I'm in my mid fifties if someone suggested sheltered accommodation to me I would have a bloody fit.

Lois talks sense.

LoislovesStewie · 15/03/2018 06:52

Not comparable (auto correct again!) but commonsense.

InMySpareTime · 15/03/2018 07:02

Does your MIL have a single retired friend (of either sex) that she could persuade to move into her house with her?
If they then present as a couple to the housing association she could keep her house, and she'd have a bit of company round the house for good measure.
FIL won't be impressed, but it's tough for him!

LittleRedTerfette · 15/03/2018 07:05

You know there’s families being raised in b&bs, right?

No room for sentiment tbh. I know it’s hard but most people end up moving when getting divorced

InMySpareTime · 15/03/2018 07:07

Or you and your family could offer to move in with her, then the house would be fully occupied and your current house would be available to house another family.

Paie · 15/03/2018 07:09

Hope she finds a smaller place soon.
I was shocked to learnt that before we moved into our lovely 2 bed council house, one single old lady had lived there for 15 years- And another old lady before her! Far too much space for one person- all the while we were cramped sleeping in the sitting room!