Stepparent financial obligations for one off expenses like holidays

[andy08006]

I’m new to Mumsnet so hello everyone. I would be grateful for advice on how others deal with the issue of new DPs or second spouses contributing to costs of things like holidays with children.

Since my divorce, I have been in a 10 year relationship with my DP. We are fortunate to have good jobs. We decided not to get married and since she is American and has independent assets in the US, have always kept our financial arrangements separate to make everything simple. I earn about 15% more than she does but my maintenance and childcare obligations more or less equalise our income. So we go through life paying 50:50.

(I’m in the unusual position of living in Europe. Every two weeks, I fly home for the weekend and have my 2 DDs from my ex. So that is what I meant by ‘childcare obligations’’. Maintenance is paid on top of my travel and accommodation and "everything else kids” costs)

I have always paid quite a bit more than the statutory amount in maintenance and so I have no issues with my ex-wife who has remained a good friend. I consider myself one of the good guys in this regard and I have striven to maintain a strong relationship with my kids throughout the last ten years.

I have never asked my DP to contribute anything to their day-to-day upkeep. But we have recently had quite an upsetting argument (for me) about the cost of our recent holiday. I completely understand that they are my kids, not hers, and that it would be unreasonable to ask her to pay for their upkeep when they don’t live with us. But I had thought that holidays, when we are effectively operating as a family, would be a different.

In previous years, I proposed and she accepted a 66:33 split (where I paid 66%) of the costs of hotels, restaurants, car hire and activities. I always paid 100% for the kids’ flights and gift items like clothing.

This year, mid holiday, she asserted she only wanted to pay 25%, basically her share as an individual, which hurt me quite a bit. On the one hand, literally speaking, she’s right that she has no obligation to pay any of their expenses. But on the other hand, which is my view, if that’s the case, it could be anyone on holiday with us, and since we earn the same amount of money when you deduct my parental costs, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to suggest that the benefit (emotionally) for her and them of sharing and contributing time with us as my DP, is worth more than a literal quarter share financially. I’m still paying for their travel costs from the UK; we’re just talking about expenses ‘on the ground’.

I’ve accepted this situation at face value because I hate arguing and I hate arguing about money in particular. But I do feel quite hurt inside as obviously, if I am having to factor in 75% of the costs, it is a gamechanger in the future in terms of the things we can consider doing. We will do less, and have fewer options, than if my DP paid a little extra so we could all, collectively, have more fun. And the fact that she sees herself as a financial independent rather than someone who is helping to support the family when we are together is hard for me. I understand that circumstances mean we’re not really a family in the literal sense of living together, but having worked hard over the years to include her and make the kids feel she is a part of their lives, I feel a bit let down. It certainly spoilt (for me) the last few days of our holiday and left me feeling deflated.

That’s how it seems to me, but how do other stepparents and families approach this difficult situation? Am I the unreasonable one?

He said it more or less evened things up- he never stated that the agreement was 15%.
Anyway why is 15% bad?
And now he's explained that he makes payments out of his gross wage, confirming that he pays much more than 15%.

I think she's being fair - they aren't her children, why should she pay for them?

I'm in the camp of her not being the children's step-mother. You are not married and she is completely independent of you. I agree with your partner. The children are not her responsibility. What amount does their mother pay towards their holidays, from the money she receives from you?

DM married DStepF when I was 13. I lived with them. They have separate finances and split most Household costs but DM ALWAYS paid for my stuff herself.

DStepF has given me eg a deposit for my first home himself but that was his choice entirely. There was never any expectation that he should fund me even though I love him like a father.

In the OP's position I don't think the DP should fund the DC's holidays. Even if it does mean fewer treats.

I can see why she doesn't contribute. I don't think its anything to be upset about considering you sound like you have enough money anyway.
Its just money. Don't let it upset you.

Life is to short to let money upset things. Time is so much more important. Sorry if that offends anyone

Totally agree with you coldkebab

I think the OP is getting a bit of a rough ride here. Yes the girlfriend should only be paying 25% of the holidays, though having been in the children's lives for that long it would be nice if she considered them more than random kids.

The OP states that he pays above recommended maintenance, he earns 15% more than his girlfriend.

And lots of parents manage a good relationship whilst working away.

If your finances are separate they are separate end of. I don't think she's being unfair to be honest.

I think she is right to only pay 25% of holiday costs.

She isn't their stepmother, she doesn't seem to have a close relationship with your children. If they are teens the holiday costs could be considerable. You don't have combined finances for other elements in your relationship, so why have them to cover holiday costs for your children?

I wonder if she resents spending EOW alone, or her holidays being child focused? Does she have any interests that she and your children share?

Moreisnnogedag - Thank you. We normally have holidays at Xmas, Easter and summer with the girls. If my DP can, she comes at half term (when I have the kids - I don’t have every HT because my ex obviously likes to have some HT’s) but it depends on her work schedule and holiday availability. She will often come for the weekends when I am back but I don’t expect her to come on every visit like I do. The atmosphere on our holidays is good. It’s really just the issue of who pays what. As I said in my original post, previously 66:33 was fine. Now it’s not. I think her point is that now the kids are getting older, they are classed as adults and it increases the cost for her. That’s true, but if she pays less and I have to pay more, ultimately I can only pay what I can afford, which means doing less since paying the cost of 75% of something is a greater burden than paying 66%. To your final question, I think what’s now needed is a full review of how we divide our finances, not just with the kids. We kind of fell into this arrangement. She had been hurt by her divorce and wanted independence. I was in the same position to some degree. I had a house here, she had a house in the US, both in our separate names. It’s more challenging when you aren’t from the same country and I guess over time, we just stuck with a situation that worked without really questioning (enough) whether we should formalise things. Obviously, not being married makes it a different kind of discussion.

JamesBlond1 - my ex never pays towards kids' holidays with me. I would not ask her to.

WhiteandredRose - interesting insight. Thank you.

AdaColeman - those are good points, thank you. I guess I just thought holidays when we are together are different from expecting help for school uniforms or trainers (which I don’t ask for, BTW). But I think your point about planning holidays more closely together is a good one. I think I could be better at that and I will think of ways to address it. I recognise it's obviously hard for a step parent, especially in our situation, since “going to see the kids” does mean I am frequently away - as I have said elsewhere, we do come to UK together, but only I * have * to go - which can be inconvenient if it means I’m not around for things we might do together.

I can understand your partner's POV. Previously, she felt that paying a third of the holiday costs was fair, as the children were young and probably cost about a third overall. Now they are older, their places cost the same as the adults. She wasn't paying for them in the past, so she doesn't feel she should now.

If you are such a great Dad and provider, then I can't see why it makes such a huge difference. You all need to choose a holiday that you can afford, given what your partner is prepared to contribute and the money you personally have left to spend on holidays. I wouldn't think this would make much of a difference in the standard of holidays available. Children just want their parents to spend time with them, not the most deluxe holidays possible.

(Find people who choose to live a long way from their children and expect applause for seeing them a bit irritating, if they are your priority then why not work out how to live nearer them.)

Francis Crawford - thank you. I would point out that I only asked DP to pay 33% of holiday expenses (excluding kids’ travel from the UK) and that previously, this was fine. Now the kids are older, this year it has become a problem and this really came as a surprise to me. It was not the case that I suddenly asked for support when previously none was given. But I respect your opinion.

PhilODox - Thank you for your opinion. I think your comments are very personal and harsh and not really related to my question. But out of courtesy, I will respond. From what I read in the mainstream press and here on Mumsnet, there are countless fathers living in the same town as their ex-wife or partner, let alone another country, who make minimal / zero effort to support their children in any way, whether that be emotionally or financially. I know of one personally; my ex-brother-in-law who has never contributed a farthing to my sister and seems to drift in and out of their lives at random, despite living about two miles away from their home. Proximity doesn’t make you a better parent.

Living abroad was not a lifestyle choice and it has allowed me to provide more support and better life opportunities for my children than if I had remained in the UK. I don’t think I am any different from any other hard working, divorced father who sees their children every other weekend; that seems to be a typical cadence in most divorced families. My children live in the south west of England. I am from the North. Had my work required me to live in Sheffield or Newcastle, I would be just as far, if not further, geographically as I am now. It takes pretty much four hours to get to their house door to door. I defy anyone to drive from Newcastle to anywhere south of, say, Oxford in less time on a Thursday or Friday afternoon or evening.

I acknowledge that I could have taken a different job and stayed closer to their home, but as it happens, the space has allowed my ex and I to create a better relationship and move on from our divorce. I am friends with her, I am friends with her new partner, sometimes I even stay with them. I believe I have happy, balanced children and since I have seen them every two weeks, without fail, for six years, and also at half term, Christmas, Easter and during long summer holidays, I think I would know. And if that was not the case, give me credit for how hard I have worked to be a physical presence for my kids despite living abroad that I would, in that circumstance, be equally committed to changing things.

This situation works for all of those who are most affected and are knowledgeable about the details. You are neither. You say you’re glad I’m not your Dad. It’s your opinion. I didn’t create this thread to ask you if you’d like me as a parent. I will not comment further on your posts. Feel free to criticise me all you like but I would prefer if you just remained silent so I could focus on people who are trying to give me constructive advice about stepparenting. Thanks again.

I think she's not unreasonable to pay 1/4. I'm assuming that as the children get older, the percentage in monetary terms is creeping up and that's why she wants to lower the percentage. Don't forget that she's paying for a more family friendly holiday and activities that she may have chosen if you were on holiday without kids. I'm assuming that the children are an age where you can't get away with them sharing a meal or ordering starters as a main so costs are similar to an adult.

Umm, just a thought but if you were married, assuming 'family money', she would be paying more evenly. Is this her way of getting you to think about proposing - i.e. by defining the difference between your 'two families'? Circumstances seem complicated but maybe if she felt she was more included in 'the family' this would be less of an issue?

They're not her children.
They're not even her stepchildren.
You don't live together as a family.
Of course she shouldn't pay for them!

Not that she should have to substitute your low earnings, but you don't even have those and an income difference where it might be kind if she picked up the tab.

I couldn't be with someone who split every meal out 75/25. But I don't think she should pay more than 25%.

My fiancé and I just had a holiday with one each of our children with us. We don't live together yet so are finances are entirely separate. I earn a fair bit more. I paid about £4K, him £1K.

I still don't think you should expect her to pay for your kids!

You state that if your oh doesn't contribute the 33% and reduces this to 25% that your holidays will be less frequent and less fun

What would you do then if your oh left you? Suppose there wasn't A oh then what? Less fun on holidays and less time on holiday?

I'm sure you're not with your do to have better more fun holidays but if you couldn't have these holidays due to her extra 8% going in there is something wrong

Whilst I can understand her POV at the same time I can imagine it is hurtful if you feel that she's 'rejecting' that chance to have a family holiday. After ten years she must have some feelings towards the children and I can see why her proposal might have hurt you.

Being that financially separate after ten years does seem a little odd. I'd have imagined that accommodation and food would be more of a joint expense in order to go somewhere further afield while entry fees and activity costs for the children would be yours.

Totally with her. If you married and looked your living expenses generally then it wouldn't be an issue but as it stands I fully 100% would only pay my share of things.

I'd lose respect for my OH is after 10yrs he started squabbling over paying for some of the holiday expenses. You come with children, she knew that and must know they have costs associated. I wouldn't worry over such a small amount when the main bulk of the holidays has been paid by you (for you & your kids share). Seems a petty thing to me and it wouldn't worry me paying for my boyfriends kids. You are all on holiday to have a good time, so seems odd to create a bad atmosphere during it over shared finances.
Maybe for future trips you could set up a joint account where you pay a set amount each month to cover costs of holiday & expenses while away but whatever the amount you both choose to add each month you add 75% and she add 25%? Then all holiday expenses are paid from that?

I think the not being married is an issue tbh. She doesn't have any of the security of being your wife etc, so is increasingly noticing the costs.

I agree with Hobbitmum it all seems very petty given your ten year history.

Maybe the real issue is not the holiday finances but something else

As I said earlier in the thread, this is all so petty over relatively small %s.

Are you honestly saying you couldn't afford to treat your children to such a nice holiday if she doesn't pay the 33%.

What sort of holidays are you talking about? .

If it is such a drama why don't you just have separate holidays - one with children & one with girlfriend.

I seriously couldn't have a 10 year relationship with someone and quibble like this.

I am a stepmum. I think she's being a bit unreasonable and pedantic about it assuming she isn't going without something important to pay for the holiday. If she can afford it and you all (including her) enjoy the type of holiday you have, I can't see why she would want to pay less so you can have a cheaper one next time. Otherwise, start having two separate, cheaper holidays.