MLM Botwatch 31 - A thread for people concerned that a friend or family member has disappeared into the world of MLM

[GavinFromTradingStandards]

New thread Huns

Do you think there's any way for an MLM to be ethically sound? For instance, if one cropped up that sold products at a normal price with good results and didn't pay for people to be recruited... I guess I'm answering my own question here as that's just a sales rep.

No. I think by very nature of the structure of a MLM it can't be ethically sounds. The goods are never going to be reasonably priced because of the layers of people who have to earn from it.
The only one that perplexes me slightly is Avon. I've bought Avon products in the past- I think they're reasonably priced and a reasonable quality. I heard they are now an MLM though.

I've had a run in with an Isagenix bot this morning. I spotted one from a mile off on a thread about a clearly perfectly normal weight woman in a running group moaning by about her body fat (there was none). Isagenix bots are even more sickly than normal ones. They get horrifically hurt and accuse you of being disrespectful and "of course I wouldn't try to sell my products" if you warn them off. It's happened a few times now where they will cry victim. Don't they claim their stuff cleanses you on a cellular level or some such crap?

I'm very pleased that you managed to pay off those accrued debts, ray. How does it feel now?

(And Yes. I think we all miss Darling CAM.)

Mielabel also bear in mind that the so called scientific studies that back up the health claims of MLM products do not bear up to scrutiny at all.

If the products were put on a shelf in Boots they would not be accompanied by the wild claims that bots can make when selling to friends and on FB. Customers would pick up the product, look at the ingredients and compare the price to the twelve other similar products on the shelf. And would not buy it because it would be so much more expensive!

MLMs get away with false health claims, promises of wealth etc because it is the bots themselves making these claims. And although they don't actually own their own business in any real sense (they are just reps who pay for all their own samples, marketing materials, away days, travel expenses, coffee when meeting a 'prospect', room hire when doing a 'business presentation'etc etc) they are the ones in trouble if they do so and are caught; the MLM just says 'oh nothing to do with us, they are independent business owners)

I've just tried to watch Castlebot's (is she still castlebot?) family blog' on YouTube. Hashtag cringe.

Oh and also: the business model is such that bots have to re riot to actually meet their targets

Pyramid

And... (last post for the mo I promise!)

The cognitive dissonance created when a bot has to constantly post on social media about being successful, with accompanying photos, memes, frequent 'updates' to do the whole attraction marketing thing.... contrasted with the reality when they are struggling, alienating family and friends but being told it's all about their 'mindset' and it's their fault if they aren't making their business successful..... SO harmful.

The 'dream board' psychological manipulation really makes me angry. You have women collating pictures of cars, houses, holiday destinations, designer clothes... they're sold the lie that if you stick with it, work hard, harder, hardest... you'll get your dreams.

Look at the statistics. Look at the Average Income Statements: YOU WON'T. You never will. Unless you are prepared to lie, bully, push, cheat, develop a lucrative sideline in training materials, have a rich family to support you or a lump sum to buy your way through promotions (an inheritance or a redundancy pay off). If you are one of those tiny, tiny, less than 1% few 'lucky' ones who talk about 'empowering' other women but actually get rich from lying and manipulating them into spending money to pay your bonuses, I honestly do not know how you live with yourself.

I mentor & coach women & men that I work with. I expect - and get - nothing back other than the satisfaction of helping them overcome obstacles and learn new things & be better/happier in their profession. I don't do it so that I can manipulate them into striving for things they will never have and making me money in the process.

It's just revolting.

I've been in an MLM and gone through all this myself so I'm passionately against them. I've been the girl 'working hard' messaging everyone about the products/'opportunity' (trying to block away my own cringing) and posting bossbabe quotes when I've been the complete opposite behind the scenes, stressed and confused over how much longer it will take for me to live the life I had on my Pinterest mood board. Needless to say I'm well out of it now and enjoying my J.O.B. where I can relax on my time off, get sick days, holiday pay, get real friends who won't turn as soon as I express doubts and don't need to take lifestyle shots every time I drink a coffee. I just find it hard sometimes putting my finger on WHY this industry is so harmful, whether it's the financial model itself or the 'culture'.

There is a need in our society to work flexibly (especially for young mums), have a chance at real success on our own terms and feel part of something with other women and if something legit could fill this gap maybe MLM would be easier to kick down. I hate to see others going through what I did for years and wish there was an alternative to fulfil the needs MLM preys upon.

@Mielabel, you are absolutely right. The fact that their are so few opportunities for flexible & part time working for parents & carers creates a vacuum in which MLMs thrive. And they know it. And they exploit that fact.

I've been following these threads from the start and have noticed that Forever Living food packing for their feed the hubgry. has featured on BBC news. I find myself uncomfortable about this on several levels 1) the way the charity is named it's not immediately obvious that it is backed by an MLM 2) doing charity work gives them a veneer of being ethical and makes it hard to criticise them without seeming unfeeling (because who doesn't want to feed the hungry right?) 3) I'm sure those in the know about charity work will be able to spot issues with this particular charity work 4) appearing on the BBC gives them legitimacy :(

If anyone from Valentus is reading this thread and would like to tell their story, I have a BBC contact who is looking to do an exposé.

Please #PMmehun in confidence to discuss.

Eddierussett I totally agree with you and in addition to your concern is the food handling and hygiene issues. I suspect that the whole day was a photo opportunity. How can they get away with preparing food in a tent regardless of whether it's dried food. All smoke and mirrors to legitimise the business. FL must be getting a bit clenched around the bum cheeks after the Valentis fiasco.

I'm another lurker who's been reading (and very occasionally posting) since the early days of the threads, before the departure of the late lamented Eyes, and the rise-and-fall of LTW, etc. I was one of the people who contacted the National Blood Service about the display of Herbalife products in a donor centre, and had a very apologetic phone call from a staff member at the NBS admitting it was a huge mistake and they would never do anything like it again.

Unfortunately I would agree with a few comments, that there have been quite a lot of messages lately which seem to be just gossiping about 'famous' bots. Their actions and lifestyles are extraordinary for all the wrong reasons and it's difficult not to view some of them as a car crash, and to rage at what they are trying to sell and the lies they promote. But it has looked like the thread was just a bunch of people PMing names around so they could gossip about them.

@Jonsey32 Avon does use the MLM model nowadays. However I wouldn't say it is anywhere near as bad as the others. You CAN just sell products as a rep and earn up to 25% commission.

You can choose to become a sales leader and recruit a team and therefore earn from them but you don't have to.

My friend has been doing it for years as a bit of pocket money for herself and tops up her income from her "proper job" with about £75-£100 every campaign.

She finds the products sell well as they are a well established brand and reasonably priced.

Can I just ask is 'lean java bean' an MLM scheme? My friend was running a fb page I think for betterware and it has now morphed into this - could she have sold the 'customer list' of 1,500 fb followers to a different scheme bot?

I've not removed myself yet but there's been no real explanation (albeit the page hadn't been active for a year as she had a lot of RL shit going on)

It's now a man running it btw. I will ask her when I get back from holiday and see her face to face but am just intrigued at the moment

Hi Summer-afaik lean java bean is part of vitae, who are part of Valentus and an MLM. Somebody may come and correct me but I'm
pretty sure that's the case. Some of the Valentus bots moved across to vitae recently.

Thanks gavin. At the moment it's all free samples and 'I lost 44lbs through drinking coffee'

Apologies to anyone who has felt excluded or who has come here looking for help and has found us all poking fun at top bots.

We need the entertainment, you see, and to highlight the ridiculousness, but perhaps we should do fewer opaque posts

Just rechecked the page and she had 13k followers

I've also looked through the new pics and it seems vitae is right. I'm hoping she's just passed the page over to the newbie. I'm presuming vitae are a shower of shites MLM?

Urgh-those claims are so irritating. Skinny coffee club (not MLM but "weight-loss" coffee) claimed one user had lost 14lb in one week. It was a bit too Peter kay for my liking tbh.

Summer

I think you'll find that botwatchblogg* has quite a bit of info on that 'company'. Just look beneath the 'Contents' page.

YY spongebobette-apologies if that's the case.

From what I've seen from Bots who have moved to Vitae (so obviously there is a strong possibility it's all bullshit) they have what was the original formulation of Valentus Slimroast. For some reason (I believe licensing was involved) Valentus had to change the formula and it was at this point the Bots were told to stop showing the product on social media. The creator of the original formula then went to Vitae Global where it's being sold as Lean Java Bean.
This may or may not be a load of complete bollocks.