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Original poster

Execution of Mother's Will and disputes over Will

52 replies

Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:08

My mum died last week.
My sister is executor, along with her husband.
My mum said that all estate, after funeral expences to be shared equally amongst three, anything left over to be disposed of by executor, i beleive.

My brother suggested selling everything that no-one wants and the proceeds be split amongst us for our children's trust fund. My sister initially agreed, and said she would donate hers to charity, then changed her mind.
She is now saying that mum wanted it all to go to a specific homeless org, and that NOTHING would be sold, end of story. She ranted on and on about how others should benefit from this, and it is what mum would have wanted, and as executor she is to do what mum wanted, even though it is not in the will.
When I pointed this out to her, she said, 'your right, it is not, but neither is it in the will that she wants to be scattered at Glastonbuyr, so technically, I can scatter in the garden if I want to, even though we all admit mum told us this is what she wanted, and all want this to happen.
Can she do this? Can she decide what happens to my mums possessions? She has given us until next thursday to take what we want (being really arsey about it) and said whatever has not been taken will be sent to this particular org, and if they wont take it all, she knows some cancer charities that will (mum never said she wanted those charities to benefit).
She claims she has a right, as the other executor witnessed this statement by my mum, even though we think she probably said something more along the lines of 'I dont want it to go on a tip, if there is anything left, you can give it to....org' rather than an express wish, she was at the time in terrible pain with cancer.
Please advise. I am unlikely to do much with it, but when she spouts it at me, I would like to be able defend myself and my brothers views without being seen a making her job harder, or being money grabbing vultures. The estate is worth very little (furniture wise).
Thank you¬!

OP posts:
Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:09

I forgot to say, that I had agreed with my brothers suggestion, as some of mums furniture was too good to just give away if our children could benefit from mum's hard work.

Did I make it clear that my mum did not mention charities in her will in any way?

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funkimummy · 31/01/2007 16:13

Is this all being held and dealt with by a Solicitor? If so, the Solicitor will be able to sort it out for you?

If it's all expressly written in the will that the executors are to dispose of it, then I'm not sure if you have much of an argument. If you don't have a solicitor and feel like having a bit of legal advice, most will/probate solicitors will give you 1/2 hour advice session for £10 or for free in some cases.

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 31/01/2007 16:17

if the will stated that the executor is to dispose of what is left and your sister is the executor, then yes, she can effectively decide what happens to it.

although your mum has not stated in her will where the rest of the estate should go, she has expressed that the executor will dispose of it, and that effectively means that she has given power to your sister to make the decision.

obviously if your sister isn't executor then she doesn't have the power to decide though.

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:17

Not held by solicitor unfortunately. I cant remember exact wording, but thats what my sister claims it says. I have no copy.

OP posts:
funkimummy · 31/01/2007 16:19

Pavlov, If you are one of the main beneficiaries of estate, then I think you have the right to see a copy of the will.

Soapbox · 31/01/2007 16:19

You might be better just sticking to one thread, so that you don't keep going over the same ground over and over!

Anyway, if your sister has said to take what you want - then why don;t you take what you want anyway?

Whatever you don't want can go to the charity!

Freckle · 31/01/2007 16:19

The executor's job is to ensure that the terms of the will are followed when distributing the estate. It is not their job to assume things which are not contained in the will, nor to insist that something the deceased said at some point or other should be carried out as though it were contained in the will.

The executor deals with the estate for the benefit of the beneficiaries. If there are 3 of you and 2 of you want one thing, then she, as the executor, has to comply with your wishes. Being executor does not give her greater power of what happens to your mum's estate.

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:20

Also, as it does not say that items should only for personal use, if my brother does take items, which he later sells, is this legal? He is saying, he can take what he wants by virtue of being mums child and nothing stopping him in the will, and what he does with it is his business.

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Ladymuck · 31/01/2007 16:21

tbh I suspect that it is all too much effort for your sister to sell each bit of furniture. And if she was going to give whatever she was given to charity then I can see that she is particularly unexcited about selling stuff for her siblings. It is much easier for her to arrnage for a charity to clear the property.

If you would like to the goods to be sold (and as beneficiary you are entitled to see this done), then I suggest that you offer to help with the sale yourself? After all you do benefit? Your sister would then be free to donate her share to charity in line with what she feels are her mothers wishes, whilst you and the third beneficiary can do as they like.

You are right though - your sister can't unilaterally rewrite the will however much it may accrod with her understanding of her mothers wishes, though wills can be varied. At the same time I would think carefully about how much is at stake especially as your sister would be entitiled to pay someone else to sell it on her behalf and dedcut those costs fro the estate. If you are happy to do the legwork then that is probably the most peacable route.

Soapbox · 31/01/2007 16:22

I really think that if the furniture is valuable enough to worth going to any bother over, then you should seek legal advice. Go and see a solicitor and then you have something concrete to show your sister.

All this squabbling is rather difficult and can be easily resolved!

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:22

I am here Soapbox, as some kind soul said it might be a good idea to post a thread in this legal section! So, I am trying to utilise as much support, advise and guidance as I can get, positive or negative. Given that I have no family to turn to right now, I am using other tools availabke to me.

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Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:25

Ladymuck - My brother had offered to take the lot, he enjoys that kind of thing, said he would be perfectly happy to get evidence of how much for each item.

OP posts:
Ladymuck · 31/01/2007 16:28

And what was your sister's reaction to the offer?

prufrock · 31/01/2007 16:30

It realy depends on the wording of her will. If it says that Chattells (?sp) should be disposed of by executor, and remainder of estaete to be split 3 ways, then your sister can, as executor,do what she wants with the urniture. If it said that the whole estate should be split then she must do this - split the possesions 3 ways and it's then up to you if you want to sell your part.

She is wrong - as executor she must follow the will to the letter- the only way it can be changed legally is if all benificiaries agree to a deed of variation. In practice families often don't bother with this, and agree between them to do things that reflect the persons spoken wishes rather than exactly what is written, but if you cannot agree, the executor cannot go against the will.

Has your sister got probate yet - because if not she shouldn't be doing anything, and if she has you can apply to the probate office to see a copy of the will.

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:34

Her reaction Ladymuck. 'YOU LISTEN TO ME GIRL. NOTHING WILL BE SOLD. DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR '

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prufrock · 31/01/2007 16:34

Of course, you could just ask your sister. You should also ask yourself whether it is worth falling out over this disagreement. Regardless of whether your Mum would have wanted her furniture to go to charity or your children, she definately wouldn't have wanted you and your sister to argue about it. This is a difficult time emotionally for you both and you should both try to keep in mind that you may not be reacting as nicely to each other as you could.

I know I sound sanctimonious, but I've spent the last 2 years refereeing arguments between my mother and aunt as executor of my Grandma's will, and I sometime feel like just banging their heads together.

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:35

She claims that she does not have to go to probate unless the estate is worth more than £15,000. My brother has challenged her on this already, he says it is £5,000. So, she has not gone to probate.

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Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:39

oh Prufrock, i have tried to talk to her about it. She said she is not arguing with anyone, we are obsessed by money, she only wants to do right by my mum (or toi ease her own conscience for past greivances with mum). She now considers it worth falling out over as me and my brother are mobey grabbers.

Likely I will just walk away from this with a car full of memories, but I just wanted to know if my sister has actually sought legal advice or is making it all up as she goes along, to shut us up.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:41

Pru - i have not argued at all, it my brother and sister who have. However, as I initially agreed with my brothers suggestion, she nows sees his views as mine also, if she is arguing with him, she will call me and leave a message as if she has argued with me!

OP posts:
Freckle · 31/01/2007 16:43

Ask to see the will. Arrange a meeting for the 3 of you and try and talk about it like reasonable adults. It's very easy to carry on an argument when it involves telephone conversations and leaving messages on answerphones.

Are you sure she is even named as executor?

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 16:46

They are both refusing. I think I shall just run away from it all. Go down for funeral on Saturday, collect the pictures I desperately want, and leave on Monday after the crematorium. I have lost my mum too, and they do not seem to notice/care. So let them become bitter and twisted, and I will have memories, and once she is scattered at Glastonbury Tor, I will have somewhere to go talk to her. Thats all I need.

Its been great to work through my thoughts. It may well change tomorrow, but lets hope not. I feel ready to face the washing up now, once I have had one more coffee...

OP posts:
prufrock · 31/01/2007 16:48

I'm not saying you have pavlov -honest I'm not . And it does sound as if she is being unreasonable (does she often call you girl? and if so how do you manage not to slap her?) In the end it might be easier for you to take a deep breath, let her get on with it, and know that you were the better person.

I am sorry you have to deal with this on top of your Mum dying though.

Original poster
Pavlovthecat · 31/01/2007 17:28

Long story with the 'girl', she is almost trying to emulate my mum, but mum had not called me that in anger since I was about 6. (you got to say it with a bit of a sneer to get tru effect). My mu had some emotional stuff going on when I was born, so my sister took over role of 'mum' for a while when I was little, then well fell out with most of the family at different stages for different reasons, mainly because when she is being unreasonable, when someone disagrees with her, she takes it personally and effectively says if you dont do it my way, when I say then'f* you', but without the swearing. Is an evangelist so does not swear (I have heard her say a few words though!).
It just does not work with adults (to be honest it does not work with her 4 year old and 2 year old either, she shouts at them in the same way all the time, and they are more unruley than my hippy friends kids, who dont raise there voices, ever.).

And your thoughts regarding me taking a deep breath. Its exactly what I have done, but not yet got the coffee. I know I am the better person in all this, as I have slung no mud and dont intend to, once it is said it cant be taken back (think I might have already said that).

I know you werent suggesting I had argued Pru, but just wanted to clarify my position here . see I can smile, feeling better already. For now.

My mother was my best friend, and none of family seem to have any inclination what kind of relationship we had, or that the house they are arguying over was my family home (not theres, they had left home before we moved there), My mother was a couageous woman, she suffered immensely over the last 8 months, and gave up a lot physically and mentally to live with my sister (not officialy, hence still has house), including accepting help from her, when she has been horrid to her. She did not shout and swear and blame others, she died with dignity and is now at peace. The least I can do is give her memory dignity and not play along with my families stupid games.

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figroll · 01/02/2007 12:02

Probate - I was told last week by my solicitor, is for anything over £10,000. So now you have 3 figures to play with!

Sorry you are still having such a hard time. I think you need to pull back and let your siblings argue. Let them shout and scream, but don't get involved. Just take the items that you want for sentimental reasons and let your sister do what she wants - does it matter? I agree that it is a pity people don't stop and think what they say, because once it is said, it will always be there as a wedge between you. It is such a stressful time for you and you need to grieve the loss of your mum.

I hope that it sorts itself out, but let go of it all. Just say to her - I am sorry, but I can't talk about this anymore, I need to console myself. She sounds like a bit of a dragon!

All the best to you and your family.

Polgara2 · 01/02/2007 12:14

Just to add I saw solicitor just last week regarding my uncles will and he did say anything over £5000 has to go to probate. So your sister can't legally do anything until she gets it, executor or not.